From: Vandy Terre on
On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 09:15:52 +0000 (UTC), Gordon <gonzo(a)> wrote:

>I'm just saying that those sources are available. unless she
>weighs in, neither of us will know what she does or does not
>bother with. You can lead a horse to water...

Re-read the first post. I stated I used the internet for weather and news. At
least I intended to do so. The local paper is a weekly full of mostly church
bulletins, not a great source of information.

>This is all getting rather pointless. The fact is that there
>are 4 good sources of news and current events. Just because
>an individual has cut themselves off from one of those sources
>does not mean they are deprived of all news and current events.

I cut myself off from satellite television. The land cuts me off from signal
radio/ television. Cable is not available this far back in the woods.

I don't care how many murders occurred in some big city or elsewhere. I moved
out into the sticks for a reason. The information I care about is usually
available through internet. But I don't get on the internet everyday. I don't
really worry about much of the world beyond this area, there is not much I can
change. I do worry about weather patterns, economic patterns, health issues.
These are things that do affect my life. Why worry about constantly seeing or
hearing advertisements for products that I neither need or want?

From: Vandy Terre on
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:19:12 -0500, Les Cargill <lcargill99(a)> wrote:

>Vandy Terre wrote:
>> Another place I see a lot of money wasted is at the grocery. Luncheon meat is
>> expensive and usually heavier in fat than home cooked meat. Look at the price
>> per pound on a whole frozen turkey and compare it to turkey luncheon meat. Is
>> it really that hard to home cook the turkey, bone it, and slice it?
>It may well be. How many hours does this represent? What's your
>marginal rate ( assuming you can sell labor instead of consuming it

An hour to two to cook, maybe half an hour to bone/ slice/ package for later
use. I usually start it (frozen turkey) to cook at low heat (300f) before going
to bed. I will handle the rest of the task while watching a DVD. This is not
part of my 'work' day, this is my 'free' time.

>> Besides
>> that luncheon meat does not come with separated dark/ light meat or organ meat.
>> Look at the price of a whole ham verses luncheon meat. Most groceries will
>> slice the ham for you. I have the ham sliced at the grocery, take it home, wrap
>> it for freezing and then it is used as needed with out spoilage.
>Right now, Wally World has $3.00 7 oz packages of thin sliced meat. I go
>through a couple of those per week. It's hardly worth squeezing a buck
>or two out of my weekly budget with something packaged differently.

Okay, 16 oz to the pound. You are paying $3 for 7oz, which is over $6/ pound.
How much of that packaged luncheon meat is water/ fat? I usually spend less
than $2/ lb for turkey or ham that I will cook myself. Your two packages of
luncheon meat cost about an hour labor at minimum wage and yields how many
meals? For money spent I am getting more meals my way. This lets me feed four
adults and two teenagers for about $400/ month by the time you add in fruits/
vegetables/ bread.

It is your choice. It is your money. I am just showing part of my method of
saving a little money and improving our lives.

From: Vandy Terre on
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:18:14 -0500, Napoleon <anarch(a)> wrote:

>On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 10:26:29 -0500, Vandy Terre
><vandy(a)> wrote:
>> Some would say I would earn more if I
>>worked outside the home. I say not. If you turn the time I spend repairing
>>clothing, harvesting gardens, collecting eggs into dollars not spent at some
>>shop, I am earning better than I could working somewhere else. Plus, I am here
>>for the children when they return from school or if they have need of a parent
>>during the day.
>That is true. One parent should stay home with the children, and it
>usually is more frugal than if both parents worked. I could never
>understand the obsession in America with the Two-Family income. Just
>more money for the tax man to take from. In fact, a family would pay
>less income tax if only one partner worked, or one partner made MUCH
>less than the other one. If both partners made about the same income,
>then the tax rate would be much higher (this I learned from a tax
>class I took in law school - the only thing I really retained from
>that class).

I work at home. My 'income' is not in money made, but in money saved. I have
added up the expenses of me working outside the home. Not such a big deal now
that the youngest children are teenagers, but I still prefer to be here when
they come home.

How do I save money for the family? In summer there are gardens that help feed
the family. Eggs from the chickens in season. Milk from the goats in season.
I make clothing for the family. I also make clothing, tents, tablecloths,
aprons, simple jewelry, simple leather work, candles, ornaments to sell. I mend
existing clothing, backpacks, anything made from cloth that will fit under the
sewing machine.

>Plus, the savings on gas and car usage (you might even be able to have
>ONE CAR!). In addition, isn't time with your children priceless? Two
>parents who work is not a frugal situation since all the extra money
>that is made is spent on childcare, babysitting, fast food, gas, car
>repairs, taxes, etc. People never think about that. I believe most
>people want to work to get away from their kids, which is strange,
>because why have kids in the first place if they're raised by

I do have a vehicle for my use. There is one motor vehicle per licensed driver
in this family. Why? Because we live too far from any taxi service, bus line
or railroad. Too far to walk for anything that can not be grown or made here at
the farm.

I have raised my own children, not like some authorities would like. I honestly
believe a child should know how to cook, clean, read as young as possible. That
child should also have a working knowledge basic first aid, poisonous snake/
spider identification, how to start and maintain a fire for heat and/ or
cooking, eatable wild plants. Calling 911 is great when the telephone is
working. During a bad storm that may not be happening.

>>I see too many people playing the 'keep up with the Jones' game and needing to
>>work two jobs per adult to manage it. Where is the time to enjoy the extras
>>purchased with that income if you are working two jobs? Does the family really
>>_need_ that boat or four wheeler or expensive car?
>No, the excuse now is HEALTH CARE! Imagine if America had socialized
>medicine, maybe, just maybe one parent might stay home to raise the
>kids. But probably not, Americans are selfish.

Health care should be better education on self maintenance. The USA has become
dependent on licensed health care practitioners. I believe in licensed
practitioners. I more strongly believe in learning how to take care of yourself
to avoid illness and injury. I was considered wrong because I taught my
children to work in at least pairs and to use proper protective gear. The other
choice was to let them run wild. I preferred to teach them how to do useful
jobs and chores. Entertainment was reading a book, identifying trees/ wild
flowers/ insects/ wildlife, building a play area and playing in it.

I once read a science fiction novel where the main character had been frozen for
decades and then defrosted. This character was having trouble finding a job to
meet the expenses of 'modern' living, then he found the under-city where life
style was much like now. In the under-city this character was able to live
comfortably on the income he could easily earn, he just had to give up the
fancier toys of the 'modern' society. We have modern toys like computers,
digital cameras, ipods. We do not have a four-wheeler, a boat, a motor vehicle
less than 6 years of age, a camper, a cabin at the lake or the like.

From: Vandy Terre on
On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 20:31:59 -0500, "h" <tmclone(a)> wrote:

>If you REALLY want to be frugal you don't have kids in the first place. You
>are neither frugal nor green if you breed.

If I don't have 'kids', I don't have milk. LOL I keep milk goats.

I believe you mean 'children'. If you do not wish to have children that is your
right. Any one that does have children needs to be responsible for those

What is the point in life at all if no one has any children? Without children
there is not much future. The species of humans would disappear if no one had
children. No one should have children just to qualify for some government
benefit. I wish parenting could be limited to only those who truly wish to have
children because they enjoy teaching and raising those children.

From: h on

"Vandy Terre" <vandy(a)> wrote in message
> On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 20:31:59 -0500, "h" <tmclone(a)> wrote:

> The species of humans would disappear if no one had
> children.

And that would be bad, why?