From: Peter Parry on
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:25:59 +0100, "Fran"
<autumnacorn(a)vendredi.fr.com> wrote:


>Online shopping customers who send back goods straight away must not be
>charged for their delivery, Europe's top court has said. Consumers can be
>required to pay the cost of returning the goods but should be refunded every
>other cost, it said.

That is the situation for goods returned under the Distance Selling
Regulations. If the goods are not in conformity with the contract
(not as described) then be it a private or business transaction they
can be rejected and the seller becomes liable for all costs. Rejection
makes the contract go away and the buyer must be left in the same
position as if they had not bought the goods so all of their expenses
must be refunded.


From: Fran on

"Rob Morley" <nospam(a)ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:20100416214450.3d4f429d(a)bluemoon...
> On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:24:34 +0100
> "Fran" <autumnacorn(a)vendredi.fr.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Rob Morley" <nospam(a)ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>> news:20100416133923.23fd37a0(a)bluemoon...
>> > On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:48:41 +0100
>> > "Fran" <autumnacorn(a)vendredi.fr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Fat lot of good that will do. Even if one files a SNAD return
>> >> postage isn't refunded.
>> >>
>> > How could eBay refund something that wasn't part of the original
>> > transaction? That still doesn't affect the buyer's rights under
>> > SOGA.
>>
>> Which do not include return postage.
>>
>>
> They most certainly do. Are you confusing SOGA with DSR?

No.


From: Dr Ivan D. Reid on
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 22:26:51 +0100, Peter Parry <peter(a)wpp.ltd.uk>
wrote in <66lhs5lbirhe4n71406ifq1d872ptgd15g(a)4ax.com>:
> On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:25:59 +0100, "Fran"
><autumnacorn(a)vendredi.fr.com> wrote:


>>Online shopping customers who send back goods straight away must not be
>>charged for their delivery, Europe's top court has said. Consumers can be
>>required to pay the cost of returning the goods but should be refunded every
>>other cost, it said.

> That is the situation for goods returned under the Distance Selling
> Regulations. If the goods are not in conformity with the contract
> (not as described) then be it a private or business transaction they
> can be rejected and the seller becomes liable for all costs. Rejection
> makes the contract go away and the buyer must be left in the same
> position as if they had not bought the goods so all of their expenses
> must be refunded.

I think you haven't got the essence of it. If you return
something under the cooling-off period of the distance-selling regs you
must be re-imbursed all your costs under the contract, including
postage/carriage. *This does not include the cost of return
postage/carriage!* I.e. as quoted above, "Consumers can be required to pay
the cost of returning the goods."

In other words, the _seller_ must be in the same position as before
he sent the goods out -- no profit nor loss, and the goods in his hand.

--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".
From: Fran on

"Dr Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan.Reid(a)brunel.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnhshqcv.4qe.Ivan.Reid(a)loki.brunel.ac.uk...
> On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 22:26:51 +0100, Peter Parry <peter(a)wpp.ltd.uk>
> wrote in <66lhs5lbirhe4n71406ifq1d872ptgd15g(a)4ax.com>:
>> On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:25:59 +0100, "Fran"
>><autumnacorn(a)vendredi.fr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>Online shopping customers who send back goods straight away must not be
>>>charged for their delivery, Europe's top court has said. Consumers can be
>>>required to pay the cost of returning the goods but should be refunded
>>>every
>>>other cost, it said.
>
>> That is the situation for goods returned under the Distance Selling
>> Regulations. If the goods are not in conformity with the contract
>> (not as described) then be it a private or business transaction they
>> can be rejected and the seller becomes liable for all costs. Rejection
>> makes the contract go away and the buyer must be left in the same
>> position as if they had not bought the goods so all of their expenses
>> must be refunded.
>
> I think you haven't got the essence of it. If you return
> something under the cooling-off period of the distance-selling regs you
> must be re-imbursed all your costs under the contract, including
> postage/carriage. *This does not include the cost of return
> postage/carriage!* I.e. as quoted above, "Consumers can be required to
> pay
> the cost of returning the goods."
>
> In other words, the _seller_ must be in the same position as before
> he sent the goods out -- no profit nor loss, and the goods in his hand.
>

Precisely.


From: Rob Morley on
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 00:18:08 +0100
"Fran" <autumnacorn(a)vendredi.fr.com> wrote:

>
> "Dr Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan.Reid(a)brunel.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:slrnhshqcv.4qe.Ivan.Reid(a)loki.brunel.ac.uk...
> > On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 22:26:51 +0100, Peter Parry <peter(a)wpp.ltd.uk>
> > wrote in <66lhs5lbirhe4n71406ifq1d872ptgd15g(a)4ax.com>:
> >> On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:25:59 +0100, "Fran"
> >><autumnacorn(a)vendredi.fr.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>Online shopping customers who send back goods straight away must
> >>>not be charged for their delivery, Europe's top court has said.
> >>>Consumers can be required to pay the cost of returning the goods
> >>>but should be refunded every
> >>>other cost, it said.
> >
> >> That is the situation for goods returned under the Distance Selling
> >> Regulations. If the goods are not in conformity with the contract
> >> (not as described) then be it a private or business transaction
> >> they can be rejected and the seller becomes liable for all costs.
> >> Rejection makes the contract go away and the buyer must be left in
> >> the same position as if they had not bought the goods so all of
> >> their expenses must be refunded.
> >
> > I think you haven't got the essence of it. If you return
> > something under the cooling-off period of the distance-selling regs
> > you must be re-imbursed all your costs under the contract, including
> > postage/carriage. *This does not include the cost of return
> > postage/carriage!* I.e. as quoted above, "Consumers can be
> > required to pay
> > the cost of returning the goods."
> >
> > In other words, the _seller_ must be in the same position as before
> > he sent the goods out -- no profit nor loss, and the goods in his
> > hand.
> >
>
> Precisely.
>
>
Except that in the case of the OP we're talking about goods not as
described, so he's rejecting the goods under SOGA. All he has to do is
make them available for collection by the buyer or his agent, business
sellers will usually send a courier or supply pre-paid packaging. If he
does the seller a favour by returning the goods on spec then the least
he should expect is reimbursement for the actual cost of postage.

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