From: Vandy Terre on
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 03:20:12 -0500, "OhioGuy" <none(a)none.net> wrote:

> I was having a discussion with someone this past week, and had to admit
>that while I try to be frugal in nearly every part of my life, I simply want
>a long, hot shower - sometimes I take a half hour one. <this came up because
>our new house has no natural gas hookup, and I've heard that the electric
>water heaters can have trouble keeping up with usage>
>
> So this is probably the area where I'm not so frugal, and I allow myself
>to indulge.
>
A 'fast recovery' electric hot water heater will keep up with most usage. We
use a forty gallon fast recovery and it keeps up with the washer, dish washer
and a short shower. Long showers that are the only pull on the hot water supply
can last near an hour.

I am not so sure it not frugal to take the occasional (one a week or less
often), long, hot shower. If taking such a shower reduces mental or physical
fatigue, then it is less expensive than a doctor visit and medications.
From: Vandy Terre on
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 11:11:10 -0500, me(a)privacy.net wrote:

>"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I bought a new car instead of farting around with used cars.
>
>That may actually be MORE frugal than a used car in my
>opinion

How do you believe this? A good used car is less to insure, less to maintain
because factory problems have already been solved, often half or less than the
price of a new car purchase. Finding a good used vehicle is not easy.

Look for:
-low wear on the driver seat (high wear may mean a lot more miles than showing)
-undercarriage damage (may mean vehicle was used rough in very rough terrain)
-body damage (minor damage, no real problem. major damage may mean internal
systems have also taken damage)
-no transmission noise and clean fluid, make sure it is shifting smoothly (metal
slivers a real bad sign, walk away)
-clean engine oil and clean engine, avoid engines with lots of leaks
-vehicle identification numbers match title numbers
-identification of owner matches title
-brake fluid clean and full, brakes working correctly in test drive
From: Rod Speed on
Napoleon wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 16:36:52 -0400, Tony Sivori <TonySivori(a)yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> The dividend to this self discipline is that I have a healthy bank
>> account, a nice 401k, and I'm paying off my 30 year mortgage in 9
>> years. If my health and my current job holds out I'll retire early
>> and with relative comfort.
>
> Nothing against you Tony, it's great to be debt free and be able to
> retire early.
>
> I just have to question those people who sock away money for their
> "retirement" and refuse to live or enjoy life before their
> "retirement." It seems the American dream is to work, work, work, and
> if you're LUCKY you will live to 72 to be able to retire. Then you
> can get your 401K tax free, SS, and Medicare. Then you can travel,
> partake in the hobbies you always wanted to do, volunteer, build that
> dream home, etc. Unfortunately, by then it is more likely you will be
> sick or invalid, and be unable to do all the things you hoped for when
> you were young and healthy.
>
> Why don't people live for today instead of waiting for a tomorrow that
> may never come? My father died one day before his retirement after
> working for 40 years. I vowed then to live for the day and spend my
> money WISELY each day instead of socking away cash and living even
> more poor just so there might be a nest egg when I turn 72 (and there
> is no way I'm living to retirement age, which in my case will be 76,
> since everyone in my family dies young).
>
> So, I guess I'm least frugal in that I don't have a 401k or IRA or
> pension, and merely have a savings account that is used for the
> present, as well as for the future.

It doesnt have to be one or the other, it can be both.

Corse it helps to get qualified in an area that pays better than the worst jobs.


From: tmclone on
On Oct 26, 3:55 pm, Vandy Terre <va...(a)tanglewood-destiny.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 03:20:12 -0500, "OhioGuy" <n...(a)none.net> wrote:
> >  I was having a discussion with someone this past week, and had to admit
> >that while I try to be frugal in nearly every part of my life, I simply want
> >a long, hot shower - sometimes I take a half hour one. <this came up because
> >our new house has no natural gas hookup, and I've heard that the electric
> >water heaters can have trouble keeping up with usage>
>
> >  So this is probably the area where I'm not so frugal, and I allow myself
> >to indulge.
>
> A 'fast recovery' electric hot water heater will keep up with most usage.  We
> use a forty gallon fast recovery and it keeps up with the washer, dish washer
> and a short shower.  Long showers that are the only pull on the hot water supply
> can last near an hour.
>
> I am not so sure it not frugal to take the occasional (one a week or less
> often), long, hot shower.  If taking such a shower reduces mental or physical
> fatigue, then it is less expensive than a doctor visit and medications.

Agreed, although I think if you really want to be in hot water for 30
minutes or more, you might get more out of a hot bath instead of a
shower, both with water usage and sensory satisfaction. I'm the
opposite. I LOVE to swim, but I simply can't be in water for more than
5-10 minutes before I become a giant prune, so 4-5 laps and short
showers are the most I can handle :)
From: Rod Speed on
Balvenieman wrote:
> Michael Black <et472(a)ncf.ca> wrote

>> People are talking "frugal" without defining it.

> The topic's been discussed ad naseum in the NG for years and
> years. Although, it is doubtful that any single definition would
> satisfy everyone the consensus always has been that whatever,
> subjectively, yields the greatest return, efficient use of resources,
> or higest level of user satisfaction at the time is "frugality".

Its much more complicated than that, particularly what
distinguishes frugality from stinginess/tight as a fish's arsehole.