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From: The Real Bev on 2 Sep 2009 13:19
>> OK, so now I'm curious. How many fake 20s was the bank claiming you were
>> passed? Fake 20s are a lot more common than fake 50s or fake 100s. So if
>> you had a lot of fake 50s, you must have had even more fake 20s. -Dave
>>Is there a study of this somewhere?
>>I've worked in a grocery store for 20 years now. I've seen a lot of
>>fake 50s and 100s, but only one fake $20 bill. So, either the 20s are
>>much better quality and don't get caught at the store level (or
>>reported to employees). THey hang up the fakes in the breakroom
>>sometimes. And they insist that we check all 50s and 100s, but don't
>>insist on checking the 20s.
> THAT is exactly why the 20 is the most commonly faked currency in the world.
> Nobody checks it, making it easier to pass.
The guy at the ethnic produce store checks every $20 with a magic pencil. He
also posts bounced checks at the register.
> The reason you've only seen one
> fake $20 bill is that you aren't examining $20 bills to see if they are
> genuine or not. So the ONE that got caught must have been a really
> outrageously bad fake. -Dave
"The way England treats her prisoners, she doesn't
deserve to have any." --Oscar Wilde
From: Rod Speed on 2 Sep 2009 14:56
The Real Bev wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> The Real Bev wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> BigDog811 wrote
>>>>> I've got a feeling we're headed to a time when cash isn't accepted anywhere.
>>>> Thats never going to happen.
>>> Don't be too sure.
>> Corse it wont. The US hasnt even had enough of a clue to give up on 1c and 2c pieces.
>>> Cash is pretty much untreaceable and therefore used by criminals.
>> Any criminal with even half a clue uses stolen credit cards.
> I'm pretty sure you can't put a ton of cocaine and a medium-size
> airplane on your MasterCard, even if it formerly belonged to Bill
> Gates or the Sultan of Brunei.
You're wrong. You seriously believe that Limbaugh pays cash for his ?
>>> "You aren't a criminal are you, Citizen? So you won't mind if we outlaw cash and require that all purchases be made
>>> with credit or debit cards, right? It's for your own good, Citizen..."
>> The voters wouldnt buy it and the legislators know that.
> You must have missed the "for your own good" part.
Nope, they wont buy that either.
And as someone else pointed out, even the stupidest politician wont
be banning cash, because otherwise they wont get any bribes, stupid.
> Right now we have way too many laws "for our own good" and people don't seem to whine much.
Because they have enough of a clue to have noticed the downsides of aircraft hijacking after 9/11.
> Didn't Kennedy keep getting elected?
Wasnt by any 'for your own good' legislation.
> Never fear, Citizen of Oz, soon we will be watching out for you too...
How odd that you clowns didnt when you just completely
imploded the entire world financial system, AGAIN.
>>>>> You need to develop the discipline to handle your finances with a credit/ debit card, and in the mean time you'll
>>>>> just have to start carrying smaller bills.
>>> I don't see how people can confuse a credit card with the "I don't
>>> have to worry about how much it costs because I'll never have to
>>> pay the bill" philosophy.
>>> I do like the Brit expression "on the never-never", though.
> What part of Oz do you come from?
Depends on what you mean by come from. Originally, far north queensland.
Havent been there for 60 years tho except for one visit 40 years ago.
Currently from south western NSW.
From: BigDog811 on 2 Sep 2009 15:53
On Sep 2, 9:47 am, SMS <scharf.ste...(a)geemail.com> wrote:
> BigDog811 wrote:
> > On Aug 31, 1:45 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...(a)geemail.com> wrote:
> >> OhioGuy wrote:
> >>> I don't understand why stores are legally able to get away with refusing
> >>> to accept legal tender dollars. It says right on the bills that they are to
> >>> be accepted as legal tender for all debts, public and private.
> >> The key word is "debt." If it's a good or service that you pay for in
> >> advance then they can refuse cash. Look at the Costco gas stations, none
> >> of which accept cash, or a few restaurants that don't take cash, i.e.
> >> the "bistro" in the Whole Foods Market near me takes only debit or
> >> credit cards (or Whole Foods gift cards). They don't want to deal with
> >> cash and the hygiene issues.
> >> Now if you already consumed a meal, or stayed in a hotel, and the
> >> restaurant refused a $50 bill then they'd be violating federal law, even
> >> if they had posted a sign stating this in advance.
> > Can I get a cite on that?
> Is U.S. currency legal tender for all debts?
> According to the "Legal Tender Statute" (section 5103 of title 31 of the
> U.S. Code), "United States coins and currency (including Federal Reserve
> notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve banks and national banks)
> are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This
> means that all U.S. money, as identified above, when tendered to a
> creditor legally satisfies a debt to the extent of the amount (face
> value) tendered.
> However, no federal law mandates that a person or an organization must
> accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services not yet
> provided. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in
> pennies or dollar bills.
> Some movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations as a matter of
> policy may refuse to accept currency of a large denomination, such as
> notes above $20, and as long as notice is posted and a transaction
> giving rise to a debt has not already been completed, these
> organizations have not violated the legal tender law.
All that means is that US Currency must be accepted as payment, unless
there is a specific agreement to use something else.
When a merchant (in this case a restaurateur) posts a sign in such a
manner and in such language that any reasonable person would be able
to see and understand it, that he accepts only credit/debit cards he
hasn't violated any law. By entering the establishment and ordering
your meal, you've agreed to his terms. If at the end of your meal,
you don't have a credit/debit card to pay with you've breached your
agreement. You've subjected yourself to possible civil, and depending
on the the laws of the state you're in, possible criminal
liabilities. An admittedly picky example, but it makes the point. As
I said before, the manager will take your cash rather than jump
through hoops, but you won't be served there again.
The idea that a purveyor of goods or services is required to take
payment in legal tender in any form or amount offered by the customer
is just wrong. It only takes an agreement to require otherwise, and
the posting of a sign is considered adequate to constitute an
agreement. If you don't like the terms, take your business elsewhere.
There's a sandwich shop down the block from me. It's run by an old
curmudgeon who reminds me of the soup nazi in the old Seinfeld
episode. He refuses to deal with pennies. He doesn't take checks or
cards. There's a sign on the menu board on his back wall, as well as
his cash register that says all sales are rounded to the nearest
nickel. There have been complaints filed about his practice
everywhere from the local police, to the DA's office, to the state
AG's office. Long story short, his terms are posted, and if you don't
like them you don't to do business with him. He makes dynamite
sandwiches, and I'll gladly give up a penny or two in my change to eat
From: BigDog811 on 2 Sep 2009 16:06
On Sep 2, 4:44 am, Shawn Hirn <s...(a)comcast.net> wrote:
> In article
> BigDog811 <bigdog...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 31, 1:45 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...(a)geemail.com> wrote:
> > > OhioGuy wrote:
> > > > I don't understand why stores are legally able to get away with
> > > > refusing
> > > > to accept legal tender dollars. It says right on the bills that they are
> > > > to
> > > > be accepted as legal tender for all debts, public and private.
> > > The key word is "debt." If it's a good or service that you pay for in
> > > advance then they can refuse cash. Look at the Costco gas stations, none
> > > of which accept cash, or a few restaurants that don't take cash, i.e.
> > > the "bistro" in the Whole Foods Market near me takes only debit or
> > > credit cards (or Whole Foods gift cards). They don't want to deal with
> > > cash and the hygiene issues.
> > > Now if you already consumed a meal, or stayed in a hotel, and the
> > > restaurant refused a $50 bill then they'd be violating federal law, even
> > > if they had posted a sign stating this in advance.
> > Can I get a cite on that? There's nothing in any federal law I'm
> > aware of that addresses this question. In fact, in my state, if you
> > eat a meal in a restaurant, and aren't prepared to pay in the form
> > posted at the hostess desk (ie: Cash Only, or No Checks, or Credit/
> > Debit Cards Only, or any combination of the foregoing) you could be
> > charged with theft and/or theft of services and/or defrauding an
> > inkeeper. As a practical matter the manager would probably take
> > whatever form of payment you have, and tell you to never darken his
> > door again. But don't think you can ignore those signs without
> > consequence.
> I think you missed the point. What if the customer is paying in
> accordance with the restaurant's payment policy, but the restaurant
> can't process the payment? So the restaurant ran out of change and can't
> make change on a $20 for a small purchase, or the restaurant's cash
> register or credit card processing terminal is broken?
Nah, didn't miss that point, as it wasn't made in the original post.
Clearly under the circumstances you cite, all bets are off and some
sort of a reasonable compromise will need to worked out by both sides
of the transaction. By the way, and I can't remember exactly where or
when, but I know I've walked into a couple of convenience stores with
temporary signs that said their credit card machine was broken and
they only take cash. Right next to their No Bills Over $20 sign.
From: hchickpea on 2 Sep 2009 18:00
On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 15:40:04 -0400, "Dave" <noway1(a)nohow2.not> wrote:
><hchickpea(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 03:01:30 -0400, "Dave" <noway1(a)nohow2.not> wrote:
>>>OK, why did you have to consider stopping acceptance entirely? Were you
>>>getting a lot of fake 50/100 dollar bills? If so, how did you know?
>> Yes, we were. Or the bank tellers were using us for patsies to pass
>> their own counterfeits. We had as many as eight a week for a couple
>> of weeks. The bank simply said - "you have X counterfeits." At that
>> point we were screwed. There is no recompense.
>OK, so now I'm curious. How many fake 20s was the bank claiming you were
>passed? Fake 20s are a lot more common than fake 50s or fake 100s. So if
>you had a lot of fake 50s, you must have had even more fake 20s. -Dave
IIRC, none. Zip. Nada. Remember this was southeast Florida, so
faking $20s may have had some sort of poor folk stigma to it.