From: RickMerrill on
BigDog811 wrote:
> On Aug 31, 5:02 pm, "Lou" <lpog...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "SMS" <scharf.ste...(a)geemail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:4a9c2816$0$1595$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net...
>>
>>
>>
>>> OhioGuy wrote:
>>>> I don't understand why stores are legally able to get away with
>> refusing
>>>> to accept legal tender dollars. It says right on the bills that they
>> are to
>>>> be accepted as legal tender for all debts, public and private.
>>> The key word is "debt." If it's a good or service that you pay for in
>>> advance then they can refuse cash. Look at the Costco gas stations, none
>>> of which accept cash, or a few restaurants that don't take cash, i.e.
>>> the "bistro" in the Whole Foods Market near me takes only debit or
>>> credit cards (or Whole Foods gift cards). They don't want to deal with
>>> cash and the hygiene issues.
>>> Now if you already consumed a meal, or stayed in a hotel, and the
>>> restaurant refused a $50 bill then they'd be violating federal law, even
>>> if they had posted a sign stating this in advance.
>>> At a store, if you were paying for merchandise and they refused a $50 or
>>> $100 bill, then they'd be within their rights to refuse it and not
>>> complete the transaction since you hadn't incurred any debt to the store
>> Way back when I was in college, I remember from a business law course that
>> if you offered a creditor US coin and currency in a minimum number of bills
>> and coins (no one is required to take 10,000 pennies in payment of a $100
>> debt, for instance) the exact amount needed to discharge the debt (no need
>> for the payee to make change) and it was refused, the debt was discharged.
>>
>> Oh well, it was a long time ago, and I may be misremembering.
>
> Not necessarily, but it's incorrect anyway. I recently attended a
> Consumer Fraud seminar at my local senior center that was sponsored by
> our nearby university law school. This very question came up.
> According to the presenter, a business law professor, this is widely
> held misconception. An "urban myth" of sorts. Absent a state law,
> and there are none in my state or any other the presenter knew of, a
> merchant is free to accept or reject any form of payment they wish.
> The only thing the state attorney general's office requires is that
> they give notice through the posting of appropriate signs.
>
>
>> According tohttp://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.shtml#q1no
>> Federal law requires a private business, person, or organization to accept
>> coins and currency as payment for goods and services. Businesses can adopt
>> their own policies regarding accepting cash, unless state law says
>> otherwise.
>

I agree that "legal tender" means that the seller has to accept the
money, BUT only if the bill is smaller than the amount due.

In other words, it is not legal to ask for payment in "unmarked small
bills" ;-)

From: RickMerrill on
BigDog811 wrote:
> On Aug 29, 12:13 pm, "OhioGuy" <n...(a)none.net> wrote:
>> I've noticed a disturbing trend over the past few months - more and more
>> places are putting up signs saying "we do not accept any bills larger than
>> $20".
>>
>> As someone who has switched over to using a cash budget to help control
>> spending, this is making life difficult.
>>
>> I saw the new sign yesterday at a gas station I fuel up at occasionally -
>> now $20 is the largest bill they accept. With current gas prices, it costs
>> about $40 or so to fill up - 80% of that $50 bill they won't accept.
>>
>> 50 years ago, there were $500 and $1,000 bills in circulation. With
>> inflation, that $50 bill they won't take any more only buys what $8.50
>> bought in 1969. In other words, you already have to carry around 6 times as
>> much money to buy the same things.
>>
>> I don't understand why stores are legally able to get away with refusing
>> to accept legal tender dollars. It says right on the bills that they are to
>> be accepted as legal tender for all debts, public and private.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>
> And just to put a final point on it go to this Snopes page a read a
> concisely and simply written article on the issue:
>
> http://www.snopes.com/business/money/pennies.asp
>
> They've even got links to both the U.S. Codes and U.S. Treasury pages
> which address the issue.
>
> Point, set, match.


"United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and
circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal
tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or
silver coins are not legal tender for debts."

Store are not allowed to accept anything ELSE. If they refuse to sell
for your $50 + $1 for a $50.50 debt, Tell them they have to or you will
report their attempt at money laundering.
From: BigDog811 on
On Sep 2, 3:51 pm, RickMerrill <Rick0.merr...(a)gmail.nospam.com> wrote:
> BigDog811 wrote:
> > On Aug 29, 12:13 pm, "OhioGuy" <n...(a)none.net> wrote:
> >>   I've noticed a disturbing trend over the past few months - more and more
> >> places are putting up signs saying "we do not accept any bills larger than
> >> $20".
>
> >>   As someone who has switched over to using a cash budget to help control
> >> spending, this is making life difficult.
>
> >>   I saw the new sign yesterday at a gas station I fuel up at occasionally -
> >> now $20 is the largest bill they accept.  With current gas prices, it costs
> >> about $40 or so to fill up - 80% of that $50 bill they won't accept.
>
> >>   50 years ago, there were $500 and $1,000 bills in circulation.  With
> >> inflation, that $50 bill they won't take any more only buys what $8.50
> >> bought in 1969.  In other words, you already have to carry around 6 times as
> >> much money to buy the same things.
>
> >>   I don't understand why stores are legally able to get away with refusing
> >> to accept legal tender dollars.  It says right on the bills that they are to
> >> be accepted as legal tender for all debts, public and private.
>
> >>     Any thoughts?
>
> > And just to put a final point on it go to this Snopes page a read a
> > concisely and simply written article on the issue:
>
> >http://www.snopes.com/business/money/pennies.asp
>
> > They've even got links to both the U.S. Codes and U.S. Treasury pages
> > which address the issue.
>
> > Point, set, match.
>
> "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and
> circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal
> tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or
> silver coins are not legal tender for debts."
>
> Store are not allowed to accept anything ELSE. If they refuse to sell
> for your $50 + $1 for a $50.50 debt, Tell them they have to or you will
> report their attempt at money laundering.

Nope. You're wrong.
From: sarge137 on
On Sep 2, 3:51 pm, RickMerrill <Rick0.merr...(a)gmail.nospam.com> wrote:
> BigDog811 wrote:
> > On Aug 29, 12:13 pm, "OhioGuy" <n...(a)none.net> wrote:
> >>   I've noticed a disturbing trend over the past few months - more and more
> >> places are putting up signs saying "we do not accept any bills larger than
> >> $20".
>
> >>   As someone who has switched over to using a cash budget to help control
> >> spending, this is making life difficult.
>
> >>   I saw the new sign yesterday at a gas station I fuel up at occasionally -
> >> now $20 is the largest bill they accept.  With current gas prices, it costs
> >> about $40 or so to fill up - 80% of that $50 bill they won't accept.
>
> >>   50 years ago, there were $500 and $1,000 bills in circulation.  With
> >> inflation, that $50 bill they won't take any more only buys what $8.50
> >> bought in 1969.  In other words, you already have to carry around 6 times as
> >> much money to buy the same things.
>
> >>   I don't understand why stores are legally able to get away with refusing
> >> to accept legal tender dollars.  It says right on the bills that they are to
> >> be accepted as legal tender for all debts, public and private.
>
> >>     Any thoughts?
>
> > And just to put a final point on it go to this Snopes page a read a
> > concisely and simply written article on the issue:
>
> >http://www.snopes.com/business/money/pennies.asp
>
> > They've even got links to both the U.S. Codes and U.S. Treasury pages
> > which address the issue.
>
> > Point, set, match.
>
> "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and
> circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal
> tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or
> silver coins are not legal tender for debts."
>
> Store are not allowed to accept anything ELSE. If they refuse to sell
> for your $50 + $1 for a $50.50 debt, Tell them they have to or you will
> report their attempt at money laundering.

Good luck finding someone to take that report.
From: RickMerrill on
BigDog811 wrote:
> On Sep 2, 3:51 pm, RickMerrill <Rick0.merr...(a)gmail.nospam.com> wrote:
>> BigDog811 wrote:
>>> On Aug 29, 12:13 pm, "OhioGuy" <n...(a)none.net> wrote:
>>>> I've noticed a disturbing trend over the past few months - more and more
>>>> places are putting up signs saying "we do not accept any bills larger than
>>>> $20".
>>>> As someone who has switched over to using a cash budget to help control
>>>> spending, this is making life difficult.
>>>> I saw the new sign yesterday at a gas station I fuel up at occasionally -
>>>> now $20 is the largest bill they accept. With current gas prices, it costs
>>>> about $40 or so to fill up - 80% of that $50 bill they won't accept.
>>>> 50 years ago, there were $500 and $1,000 bills in circulation. With
>>>> inflation, that $50 bill they won't take any more only buys what $8.50
>>>> bought in 1969. In other words, you already have to carry around 6 times as
>>>> much money to buy the same things.
>>>> I don't understand why stores are legally able to get away with refusing
>>>> to accept legal tender dollars. It says right on the bills that they are to
>>>> be accepted as legal tender for all debts, public and private.
>>>> Any thoughts?
>>> And just to put a final point on it go to this Snopes page a read a
>>> concisely and simply written article on the issue:
>>> http://www.snopes.com/business/money/pennies.asp
>>> They've even got links to both the U.S. Codes and U.S. Treasury pages
>>> which address the issue.
>>> Point, set, match.
>> "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and
>> circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal
>> tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or
>> silver coins are not legal tender for debts."
>>
>> Store are not allowed to accept anything ELSE. If they refuse to sell
>> for your $50 + $1 for a $50.50 debt, Tell them they have to or you will
>> report their attempt at money laundering.
>
> Nope. You're wrong.

you're right - I should have said the seller is not allowed to require
some Other Currency.