From: Peter B on

"Citizen Jimserac" <jimserac(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d42fca4c-a5eb-401f-9f77-e4d238b8c15f(a)26g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 18, 4:51 pm, "Peter B" <origin...(a)frag.com> wrote:
Personally you are scum and politically even worse
> than that.

KILLFILED.

Bye bye!

Citizen Jimserac
===================================================
Please remember that.

Oh, and did you ever get caught up on your child support payments or
alimony?

Even Commies have no right to abuse their daughters.


From: Peter B on

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7p2l2sF3rh8opU1(a)mid.individual.net...
> AZDuffman wrote:
>> On Dec 18, 11:47 am, Rachel Uchitel <lilhor...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> As Obama has hinted, without meaningful cost controls on major
>>> components of our medical-health programs, the result will
>>> eventually
>>> be U.S. BANKRUPTCY!
>>
>> You need to learn ECON 101. You CANNOT control the cost of
>> something. If you slap a control on it, supply will shrink or
>> dissapear.
>
> How odd that it didnt when Japan did just that.
>
>> The probelm in health care is the "customer" is rarely the person who
>> actually pays.
>
> The real problem is that hardly anyone can afford to treat the most
> expensive medical problems like a heart attack or diabetes etc.
>

Treated diabetes is not that expensive, runaway or poorly treated
diabetes is. At that point they go on disability and the state pays for
it. Heart care is covered under most medical plans, emergency surgeries
cannot be denied.

> So you have to tax everyone to pay for those most expensive medical
> problems.
>

Other than sales tax the ''poor'' pay no taxes.

Currently the government when it shifts funds to pay one thing or
another does not affect the average tax payer when it comes to their
private health plans, but let it all fit under the control of the USA
government then watch them spend the monies elsewhere, lie or make up
some lame excuse for it like they have been doing for the SS monies
which was supposed to be in a literal fund of its own but isn't due to
their greed. One day the avg citizen will wake up expecting treatment
only to find it denied due to lack of funds.


From: Peter B on

"Marcus Aurelius" <alexander26a(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:20acf5c7-5685-47e3-aa92-f85dce5dbdba(a)e27g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> Aristotle, as I remember it, stated that the most important factor
> with regard to human happiness is health.
> He, also, stated that the purpose of a political state was to bring
> "the good life" to the citizen.
> Our Preamble to the US Constitution essentially reaffirms these
> ancient principles.
> A "single payer" form of universal health insurance, therefore, would
> be the most appropriate means
> to fulfill Aristotle's and our Constitution's goals and ends.

Not when it is in the control/hands of government.

Your idea is not well thought out and is the cry of the naive.


From: Rod Speed on
Peter B wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa(a)gmail.com> wrote
>> AZDuffman wrote
>>> Rachel Uchitel <lilhor...(a)yahoo.com> wrote

>>>> As Obama has hinted, without meaningful cost controls on major components of our medical-health programs, the
>>>> result will eventually be U.S. BANKRUPTCY!

>>> You need to learn ECON 101. You CANNOT control the cost of
>>> something. If you slap a control on it, supply will shrink or dissapear.

>> How odd that it didnt when Japan did just that.

>>> The probelm in health care is the "customer" is rarely the person who actually pays.

>> The real problem is that hardly anyone can afford to treat the most
>> expensive medical problems like a heart attack or diabetes etc.

> Treated diabetes is not that expensive,

Wrong when the diabetic ends up with foot ulcers etc and there is
no alternative to cutting the feet off as the diabetes progresses.

> runaway or poorly treated diabetes is. At that point they go on disability and the state pays for it.

Still a single payer system at that stage.

> Heart care is covered under most medical plans,

Irrelevant to the fact that the customer isnt paying for that.

> emergency surgeries cannot be denied.

But can very easily result in bankruptcy when you need a heart bypass etc.

>> So you have to tax everyone to pay for those most expensive medical problems.

> Other than sales tax the ''poor'' pay no taxes.

Even you should have noticed that not everyone is poor.

And the working poor pay a lot more than just sales tax anyway.

> Currently the government when it shifts funds to pay one thing or another does not affect the average tax payer when
> it comes to their private health plans,

But there is very substantial funds shifting with medicare alone, just because
funds are moved from those who are young, fit and healthy and working to
those who are entitled to have medicare pay their medical costs.

The modern universal first and second world health care funding
systems in all but the US the same as US medicare in that regard.

> but let it all fit under the control of the USA government then watch them spend the monies elsewhere, lie or make up
> some lame excuse for it like they have been doing for the SS monies which was supposed to be in a literal fund of its
> own but isn't due to their greed.

The obvious approach is to fix that, not continue to pay TWICE the percentage
of GDP that the rest of the world does on an insurance system.

> One day the avg citizen will wake up expecting treatment only to find it denied due to lack of funds.

No govt will ever be that stupid, essentially because it would be out of office so fast its feet wouldnt even touch the
ground.

And its a lie anyway, has not happened with medicare or any other universal health care system.


From: Citizen Jimserac on
On Dec 19, 2:11 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter B wrote
>
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed....(a)gmail.com> wrote
> >> AZDuffman wrote
> >>> Rachel Uchitel <lilhor...(a)yahoo.com> wrote
> >>>> As Obama has hinted, without meaningful cost controls on major components of our medical-health programs, the
> >>>> result will eventually be U.S. BANKRUPTCY!
> >>> You need to learn ECON 101.  You CANNOT control the cost of
> >>> something.  If you slap a control on it, supply will shrink or dissapear.
> >> How odd that it didnt when Japan did just that.
> >>> The probelm in health care is the "customer" is rarely the person who actually pays.
> >> The real problem is that hardly anyone can afford to treat the most
> >> expensive medical problems like a heart attack or diabetes etc.
> > Treated diabetes is not that expensive,
>
> Wrong when the diabetic ends up with foot ulcers etc and there is
> no alternative to cutting the feet off as the diabetes progresses.
>
> > runaway or poorly treated diabetes is. At that point they go on disability and the state pays for it.
>
> Still a single payer system at that stage.
>
> > Heart care is covered under most medical plans,
>
> Irrelevant to the fact that the customer isnt paying for that.
>
> > emergency surgeries cannot be denied.
>
> But can very easily result in bankruptcy when you need a heart bypass etc..
>
> >> So you have to tax everyone to pay for those most expensive medical problems.
> > Other than sales tax the ''poor'' pay no taxes.
>
> Even you should have noticed that not everyone is poor.
>
> And the working poor pay a lot more than just sales tax anyway.
>
> > Currently the government when it shifts funds to pay one thing or another does not affect the average tax payer when
> > it comes to their private health plans,
>
> But there is very substantial funds shifting with medicare alone, just because
> funds are moved from those who are young, fit and healthy and working to
> those who are entitled to have medicare pay their medical costs.
>
> The modern universal first and second world health care funding
> systems in all but the US the same as US medicare in that regard.
>
> > but let it all fit under the control of the USA government then watch them spend the monies elsewhere, lie or make up
> > some lame excuse for it like they have been doing for the SS monies which was supposed to be in a literal fund of its
> > own but isn't due to their greed.
>
> The obvious approach is to fix that, not continue to pay TWICE the percentage
> of GDP that the rest of the world does on an insurance system.
>
> > One day the avg citizen will wake up expecting treatment only to find it denied due to lack of funds.
>
> No govt will ever be that stupid, essentially because it would be out of office so fast its feet wouldnt even touch the
> ground.
>
> And its a lie anyway, has not happened with medicare or any other universal health care system.

Exactly correct. The cost of NOT having some sort of government
provided health care program for millions of uninsured is far GREATER
than allowing the current situation to continue. What about some
epidemic for which there is no vaccination?

In addition, there is the unstated assumption that if we have a
government run option we must copy exactly what the French or Great
Britain or Canada has. We are under no such constraint - in fact, a
wise move would be to consult with experts from these systems and find
ways of improving it.

The utter irony of all this is that everything the opponents of the
government system say is theoretically correct - governments really do
not run big organizations well, it is better to have lower taxes and
smaller government and many freely competing private enterprise
insurers (you just know that's not going to happen).

But in the context of the current situation, with tens of millions of
illegal aliens, tens of millions of uninsureds and the willful
complicity of the health "insurers" in various exclusionary tactics to
protect their "profits", such as the prior condition exclusion and
provisions in their plan which, after a certain expenditure of time
and resources, ENDS the coverage of the insured and terminates all
benefits, there is no alternative but to seek government redress of
this deliberate avoidance of the health care problem which, in effect,
uses American taxpayers to subsidy the profits of special interest
insurers.

Citizen Jimserac