From: A Sellers on

"petrolcan" <petrolcan(a)SPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.26cf08924b0379a998988d(a)news.virginmedia.com...
> > Exactly. If the buyer is a regular on this Group that would certainly explain why
> > you should side with the buyer so readily when you haven't even seen a single one
> > of these messages he sent to the seller, asking for "help".
>
> I'm going on the info provided by the OP unless you can provide an alternative
> veiw.

As I said.

You're recommending the buyer leaves negative feedback without having read a
single one of these messages he left for the seller.

You have no idea of the content of these messages, what they acually said
at all, have you ?

Maybe they were the kind of message that didn't warrant a reply of any sort.

You don't know that, do you ?

Maybe in addition to getting help in using a telephone, the buyer also needs
some help in using "copy and paste" as well.



From: A Sellers on

"Niel Humphreys" <admin(a)sznzozwdzoznzczozmzpzuztzezrzs.co.uk> wrote in message
news:i42svl$cr4$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> "A Sellers" <Sellers(a)Hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8ckansFuogU1(a)mid.individual.net...
> >
> > "Niel Humphreys" <admin(a)sznzozwdzoznzczozmzpzuztzezrzs.co.uk> wrote in
> > message
> > news:i411g6$c9e$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> >> "A Sellers" <Sellers(a)Hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:8cicf9Fd7eU1(a)mid.individual.net...
> >> >
> >> through the resolution centre?
> >> >
> >> > Quote -
> >> >
> >> > "I got a little tires chasing it as its not down to me to do it and is
> >> > costing me in mkaking calls to an expensive number. It was interparcel
> >> > that
> >> > was used who seem very dredful upon speaking to them previously."
> >> >
> >> > Do you really need it spelled out for you ?
> >>
> >> Do you? Iterparel are not a courier or a courier's depot. They are a
> >> shipping service reseller employed by the seller and the recipient has
> >> absolutely no contract with them and should not have to be dealing with
> >> them.
> >>
> >
> > You are a seller on eBay.
> >
> > You sell something, and dispatch it.
> >
> > Two weeks later, the buyer contacts you and says he didn't receive
> > anything.
> >
> > You check the tracking number on the courier website and according to
> > that,
> > the item was delivered 8 days ago. As here.
> >
> > So what do you do ?
> >
> > Contact the courier yourself ?
>
> Yes and obtain a proof of delivery & signature scan. In my case these are
> automatically displayed in my account page with my courier so I just have to
> download them then attach it to an email to send to the customer and ask if
> they recognise the signature. Every time this has happened it has been where
> delivery has been to a business address and the receptionist has signed for
> the item then put it safe somewhere, my customer has been able to see who it
> was and then ask them where the item was stored. Job sorted.
>
> > When you don't have all the details, and when for all you know the buyer
> > could be
> > trying to pull a fast one - now with your help. Or when someone at the
> > buyer's address
> > or a neighbour could have taken delivery and kept the good - *** for all
> > you know ***.
>
> The courier I use has a policy that the drivers should only deliver to the
> address I give unless I give specific instructions (given to me by my
> customer) for it to be left with another specific neighbour.
>
> > Or do you supply the buyer with all the necessary information so that he
> > can
> > contact the courier himself ?
>
> No, not his job. The only time I give buyer information like this is when a
> delivery has failed due to no-answer.


Which is what happened in this case.


> I get an email from my courier and
> forward this on along with the depot address and contact number so they can
> re-schedule in case the driver did not actually leave a card or carded the
> wrong door. It also means that the buyer knows I am aware that delivery
> failed.

Which is presumably what the seller did. Otherwise the buyer wouldn't have been
able to contact the courier to arrange re-delivery himself.



>
> > In this situation, at this stage, the buyer is the only person who's in
> > any position
> > to argue with the courier. As he alone is in full possession of the
> > relevant facts
> > if the courier turns round and claims that the parcel was delivered or
> > that the
> > delivery failed.
>
> Which is wrong, the seller should have been the one contacting Interparcel
> and chasing this up.


I'm sorry. There seems to be some confusion here. Just now you said that you provide
the buyer with "the depot address and contact number so they can re-schedule".
Where does the seller "chasing anything up" come into this ?


> It is the sellers' responsibility to deliver purchased
> items to their buyers. The seller chose to use an intermediary like
> Interparcel, presumably because it was cheapest.

As we don't know sellers identity there is no way of knowing their feedback
score, how many sales they've made and whether they're likely to have had
problems with this particular carrier before. If they've got say 10,000
sales with 100% feedback then its unlikley they'll still be using a
carrier which will cause them such problems.


> Why should it be the
> buyer's problem when there are delivery problems caused by the seller's
> choice of delivery method?

The initial delivery problem was cause by the buyers not being in when the
delivery was attempted. Or failing to hear the doorbell.

>
> > And yet simply because the seller chose the latter, the most sensible
> > course, you and others are quite happy for the buyer to leave negative
> > feedback.
>
> There is more to it than that and you are either fully aware having read
> this thread or are just being argumentative for the sake of it.

The buyer wasn't in when delivery was first attempted. Or he was in, but missed
the doorbell as can happen. But once given the address and telephone no. of the
courier or carrier it was a simple matter for him to arrange re-delivery over
the phone himself.
Because no matter how unsatisafactory this might be - given the couriers
unsatisfactory telephone support - the fact remains that this is the only way
to resolve the problem. The buyer, not the seller, re-arranging the delivery
at a time to suit himself. As he in fact did, eventually.






>
>


From: Niel Humphreys on
"A Sellers" <Sellers(a)Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8ckg29FtuvU1(a)mid.individual.net...
>> > Or do you supply the buyer with all the necessary information so that
>> > he
>> > can
>> > contact the courier himself ?
>>
>> No, not his job. The only time I give buyer information like this is when
>> a
>> delivery has failed due to no-answer.
>
>
> Which is what happened in this case.
>
>
>> I get an email from my courier and
>> forward this on along with the depot address and contact number so they
>> can
>> re-schedule in case the driver did not actually leave a card or carded
>> the
>> wrong door. It also means that the buyer knows I am aware that delivery
>> failed.
>
> Which is presumably what the seller did. Otherwise the buyer wouldn't have
> been
> able to contact the courier to arrange re-delivery himself.

No, the seller used Interparcel so would not have known that delivery failed
as they do not notify their customers of anything. As the seller did not
inform the buyer that the item had been despatched the buyer also had no way
of knowing when delivery was supposed to be and that it failed on the day it
did.


>> > In this situation, at this stage, the buyer is the only person who's in
>> > any position
>> > to argue with the courier. As he alone is in full possession of the
>> > relevant facts
>> > if the courier turns round and claims that the parcel was delivered or
>> > that the
>> > delivery failed.
>>
>> Which is wrong, the seller should have been the one contacting
>> Interparcel
>> and chasing this up.
>
>
> I'm sorry. There seems to be some confusion here. Just now you said that
> you provide
> the buyer with "the depot address and contact number so they can
> re-schedule".
> Where does the seller "chasing anything up" come into this ?

Read what I said. I provide the information to the buyer when a delivery has
failed in case they need to re-schedule and did not receive a card with
these details on it. If delivery failed due to failure in service or was not
attempted then in this case I would certainly be chasing the courier myself
and not leaving it to the buyer.

> As we don't know sellers identity there is no way of knowing their
> feedback
> score, how many sales they've made and whether they're likely to have had
> problems with this particular carrier before. If they've got say 10,000
> sales with 100% feedback then its unlikley they'll still be using a
> carrier which will cause them such problems.

I agree it is an assumption, albeit a very solid one. Let's face it, if they
were shipping that much stuff then they will almost certainly have their own
courier account. That they used Interparcel is in itself an indicator that
they do not ship a great deal of stuff regularly and either do not have a
courier account or their level of shipping does not qualify them for
contract rates lower than Interparcel's rate.

Resellers like Interparcel, PArcel2Go etc are aimed at people wanting to
ship stuff infrequently as an option to paying the full one-off non-contract
rates couriers charge.

> The initial delivery problem was cause by the buyers not being in when the
> delivery was attempted. Or failing to hear the doorbell.

Maybe if he knew to expect delivery then he would have been. Maybe if he
knew he would be out on that day and that delivery was due then he could
have contacted HDN and arranged re-delivery or to collect from the depot
himself.

Either way, I don't know of any courier that does not automatically
re-attempt delivery the next working day after a failed delivery, and they
should leave a card at the delivery address informing of a failed delivery -
neither of these instances occured which is a decent indication that the
driver could not find the delivery address perhaps?

> The buyer wasn't in when delivery was first attempted. Or he was in, but
> missed
> the doorbell as can happen. But once given the address and telephone no.
> of the
> courier or carrier it was a simple matter for him to arrange re-delivery
> over
> the phone himself.

Exactly.

> Because no matter how unsatisafactory this might be - given the couriers
> unsatisfactory telephone support - the fact remains that this is the only
> way
> to resolve the problem. The buyer, not the seller, re-arranging the
> delivery
> at a time to suit himself. As he in fact did, eventually.

Yes, but as has been said before the buyer was not aware that delivery had
failed, was not aware which courier was supposed to be delivering and was
not aware that the item had been shipped.

Ultimately all of this could have been avoided by the seller firing off an
email to the buyer to the tune of "Thanks for the payment, I am shipping
today by HDN and you should have the item tomorrow" a the very least. That's
not exactly a very time consuming and taxing thing to do is it?


From: A Sellers on

"petrolcan" <petrolcan(a)SPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.26cf06dba80cbcdc98988c(a)news.virginmedia.com...
>
> > and when for all you know the buyer could be
> > trying to pull a fast one - now with your help.
>
> Ah, now you are accusing the buyer of being dishonest.

No I'm not.

I'm giving the seller's point of view, when dealing with a complete
stranger who he's never spoken to.

I've come to the conclusion that you're either a very stupid person,
or someone with rather too much time on their hands.

All the more so, given the frequency of your messages to this Group.
As compared with the fact that you've only around 800 eBay transactions
to your name, spread over almost 10 years.









>


From: A Sellers on

"Niel Humphreys" <admin(a)sznzozwdzoznzczozmzpzuztzezrzs.co.uk> wrote in message
news:i432nr$qq$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> "A Sellers" <Sellers(a)Hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8ckg29FtuvU1(a)mid.individual.net...
> >> > Or do you supply the buyer with all the necessary information so that
> >> > he
> >> > can
> >> > contact the courier himself ?
> >>
> >> No, not his job. The only time I give buyer information like this is when
> >> a
> >> delivery has failed due to no-answer.
> >
> >
> > Which is what happened in this case.
> >
> >
> >> I get an email from my courier and
> >> forward this on along with the depot address and contact number so they
> >> can
> >> re-schedule in case the driver did not actually leave a card or carded
> >> the
> >> wrong door. It also means that the buyer knows I am aware that delivery
> >> failed.
> >
> > Which is presumably what the seller did. Otherwise the buyer wouldn't have
> > been
> > able to contact the courier to arrange re-delivery himself.
>
> No, the seller used Interparcel so would not have known that delivery failed
> as they do not notify their customers of anything. As the seller did not
> inform the buyer that the item had been despatched the buyer also had no way
> of knowing when delivery was supposed to be and that it failed on the day it
> did.
>
>
> >> > In this situation, at this stage, the buyer is the only person who's in
> >> > any position
> >> > to argue with the courier. As he alone is in full possession of the
> >> > relevant facts
> >> > if the courier turns round and claims that the parcel was delivered or
> >> > that the
> >> > delivery failed.
> >>
> >> Which is wrong, the seller should have been the one contacting
> >> Interparcel
> >> and chasing this up.
> >
> >
> > I'm sorry. There seems to be some confusion here. Just now you said that
> > you provide
> > the buyer with "the depot address and contact number so they can
> > re-schedule".
> > Where does the seller "chasing anything up" come into this ?
>
> Read what I said. I provide the information to the buyer when a delivery has
> failed in case they need to re-schedule and did not receive a card with
> these details on it. If delivery failed due to failure in service or was not
> attempted then in this case I would certainly be chasing the courier myself
> and not leaving it to the buyer.
>
> > As we don't know sellers identity there is no way of knowing their
> > feedback
> > score, how many sales they've made and whether they're likely to have had
> > problems with this particular carrier before. If they've got say 10,000
> > sales with 100% feedback then its unlikley they'll still be using a
> > carrier which will cause them such problems.
>
> I agree it is an assumption, albeit a very solid one. Let's face it, if they
> were shipping that much stuff then they will almost certainly have their own
> courier account. That they used Interparcel is in itself an indicator that
> they do not ship a great deal of stuff regularly and either do not have a
> courier account or their level of shipping does not qualify them for
> contract rates lower than Interparcel's rate.
>
> Resellers like Interparcel, PArcel2Go etc are aimed at people wanting to
> ship stuff infrequently as an option to paying the full one-off non-contract
> rates couriers charge.
>
> > The initial delivery problem was cause by the buyers not being in when the
> > delivery was attempted. Or failing to hear the doorbell.
>
> Maybe if he knew to expect delivery then he would have been. Maybe if he
> knew he would be out on that day and that delivery was due then he could
> have contacted HDN and arranged re-delivery or to collect from the depot
> himself.
>
> Either way, I don't know of any courier that does not automatically
> re-attempt delivery the next working day after a failed delivery, and they
> should leave a card at the delivery address informing of a failed delivery -
> neither of these instances occured which is a decent indication that the
> driver could not find the delivery address perhaps?
>
> > The buyer wasn't in when delivery was first attempted. Or he was in, but
> > missed
> > the doorbell as can happen. But once given the address and telephone no.
> > of the
> > courier or carrier it was a simple matter for him to arrange re-delivery
> > over
> > the phone himself.
>
> Exactly.
>
> > Because no matter how unsatisafactory this might be - given the couriers
> > unsatisfactory telephone support - the fact remains that this is the only
> > way
> > to resolve the problem. The buyer, not the seller, re-arranging the
> > delivery
> > at a time to suit himself. As he in fact did, eventually.
>
> Yes, but as has been said before the buyer was not aware that delivery had
> failed, was not aware which courier was supposed to be delivering and was
> not aware that the item had been shipped.
>
> Ultimately all of this could have been avoided by the seller firing off an
> email to the buyer to the tune of "Thanks for the payment, I am shipping
> today by HDN and you should have the item tomorrow" a the very least. That's
> not exactly a very time consuming and taxing thing to do is it?

1. The seller didn't inform the buyer when they've despatched the item. Ideally
all sellers should do this, but many don't in my experience. This in itself
however, hardly merits negative feedback.

2. The buyer should have been informed once a delivery had been attempted
normally by a card through the door. I don't know of any carrier or courier
who as a matter of policy don't leave a card. The fact that one wasn't left
in this case, or left in the wrong door, is presumably the fault of the driver.
Again hardly the fault of the seller, or deserving of negative feedback.

3. Once the seller informed the buyer that a delivery had been attempted but
had failed and provided the buyer with all the necessary information i.e. the phone
number and address of the courier to arrange re-delivery there was nothing else
the seller could be expected to do. The fact that they didn't offer any addition
"help" whatever that was supposed to consist of, again hardly merits negative
feedback.

4. The fact that the telephonist at the Couriers didn't have a clue - another beef
of the buyer, is again hardly the fault of the seller. Maybe the regular telephonist
was on holiday that week. Again hardly deservong negative feedback.





>
>


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