From: Moog on
On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:26:20 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:51:25 +0100, Peter Parry wrote:
>
>>> Except of course that PayPal for UK users is registered in Luxembourg.
>>> This will make things complicated if not very
> difficult
>>> to pursue.
>>
>> Not really, PayPal have elected, on a voluntary basis, to be subject to
>> oversight from the UK Financial Ombudsman Service so complaints can be
>> made there as well.
>
> And can the Ombudsman actually do anything other than talk nicely to
> Paypal? If it was the FSA I might have more confidence.

The Ombudsman has no jurisdiction over financial institutions with their
head offices based in Luxembourg.

--
Moog

"Some mornings it doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through
the leather straps"
From: Moog on
On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:51:25 +0100, Peter Parry wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:40:08 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
> <allsortsnotthisbit(a)howhill.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Except of course that PayPal for UK users is registered in Luxembourg.
>>This will make things complicated if not very difficult to pursue.
>
> Not really, PayPal have elected, on a voluntary basis, to be subject to
> oversight from the UK Financial Ombudsman Service so complaints can be
> made there as well.

Irrelevant. The Ombudsman has no jurisdiction outside of the UK.

What paypal are doing is simply stating they follow UK guidelines. They
are not obliged to follow UK financial law at all. They are not a UK
financial body.

--
Moog

"Some mornings it doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through
the leather straps"
From: The Older Gentleman on
Peter Parry <peter(a)wpp.ltd.uk> wrote:

> Because it is quite legal. Peter's opinion that their condition is an
> unfair condition is questionable. They are offering a contractual
> protection with certain conditions. Whether or not those conditions
> are reasonable have not been tested in court nor have they been
> subject to assessment by the likes of the OFT.

Seems to be the right answer. I think, if properly tested, they'd be
found to be unfair. But nobody's done that yet.


--
BMW K1100LT & K100RS Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER Damn, back to six bikes!
Try Googling before asking a damn silly question.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
From: Peter Crosland on
"Peter Parry" <peter(a)wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
news:gpt4c514euja9fs01umndo95fi2utm2ukt(a)4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:02:02 +0100, Spacker
>>"Peter Crosland" <g6jns(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>PayPal's insistence on it is simply not legally valid.
>
>>So why are they allowed to do it?
>
> Because it is quite legal. Peter's opinion that their condition is an
> unfair condition is questionable. They are offering a contractual
> protection with certain conditions. Whether or not those conditions
> are reasonable have not been tested in court nor have they been
> subject to assessment by the likes of the OFT.

The whole essence of the Unfair Trading legislation is to prevent dominant
parties, such as PayPal, imposing conditions on consumers, that are
fundamentally unfair. It is difficult to see how refusing to accept a proof
of delivery that would be acceptable in court can be considered anything but
unfair. It is very clear that it is done just for PayPal's administrative
convenience. Please explain how you feel that PayPal's condition can be
legally supported?

Peter Crosland


From: Peter Parry on
On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:26:20 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
<allsortsnotthisbit(a)howhill.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:51:25 +0100, Peter Parry wrote:

>> Not really, PayPal have elected, on a voluntary basis, to be subject
>> to oversight from the UK Financial Ombudsman Service so complaints
>> can be made there as well.
>
>And can the Ombudsman actually do anything other than talk nicely to
>Paypal?

Yes, as a statutory dispute resolution scheme they broadly have the
power of a court. Their powers are set out in the Financial Services
and Markets Act 2000 and the Consumer Credit Act 2006. An ombudsman
decision is final and binding on the business, if it is accepted by
the consumer.