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From: clams_casino on 12 Dec 2009 14:35
sse11791(a)aim.com wrote:

>I am trying to save money on my heating costs. I live alone and want
>to be able to turn off or set back the thermostat in my apartment when
>I am not home so that I can save money on heat.
>
>I have a 1200 sq foot apartment with forced hot air gas heat. I live
>in upstate New York.
>
>I work and I am out of the house 10 hours a day and don't like the
>idea of heating a vacant apartment. But I am concerned that if I let
>the apartment get too cold while I am not home, it will cost just as
>much or more to re-heat it to a comfortable temperature.
>
>
Using a heat pump can cost as much to reheat the home, but that's
because electrical resister heat typically kicks in. With a gas
system, your savings will be most of the time the temperature is cut
back. Simply put, the cost to reheat will be approximately the cost
savings as the temperature drops to the lowest setting where most of the
savings is essentially the time the residence is holding at its lowest
temperature. In actuality, it's a bit more complicated than that, but
that's essentially true for practical purposes.

>Is there a rule of thumb for how many degrees set-back will save
>money?
>

Lower, the better - it costs less to hold your residence at 60 vs. 65
and 50 vs. 55, etc.

>Can I turn the heat down to 40 degrees during the day and then
>back up to room temperature when I get home? Or will that wind up
>costing the same as leaving the heat on?
>
>

You will use less energy by setting it back. The key, however, is your
comfort level and not being too low as to have pipes freeze. When it's
very cold outside, it'll take a lot longer to reheat to a comfortable
level. Furthermore, depending on your insulation, 40F may result in
frozen pipes where the outside wall temperature & area around the pipes
(if pipes are in an outside wall) will be colder than the inside room
temperature when the outside temperature is much below freezing and for
long periods of time..

>What about if I am going away for the weekend? Is the set-back
>different?
>
>
>
Same advantage - you'll save on energy, but keep the temperature high
enough to prevent pipes from freezing when the outside temperature is
below freezing and keeping in mind it may take hours to build the
temperature back to a comfortable setting, depending on the outside
temperature, the volume of your apartment, how well it's insulated,
etc..

>Thank you for your suggestions.
>
>
From: Dave C. on 12 Dec 2009 01:55
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:32:33 -0500
sse11791(a)aim.com wrote:

> I am trying to save money on my heating costs. I live alone and want
> to be able to turn off or set back the thermostat in my apartment when
> I am not home so that I can save money on heat.
>
> I have a 1200 sq foot apartment with forced hot air gas heat. I live
> in upstate New York.
>
> I work and I am out of the house 10 hours a day and don't like the
> idea of heating a vacant apartment. But I am concerned that if I let
> the apartment get too cold while I am not home, it will cost just as
> much or more to re-heat it to a comfortable temperature.
>
> Is there a rule of thumb for how many degrees set-back will save
> money? Can I turn the heat down to 40 degrees during the day and then
> back up to room temperature when I get home? Or will that wind up
> costing the same as leaving the heat on?
>
> What about if I am going away for the weekend? Is the set-back
> different?
>
> Thank you for your suggestions.

Generally, you will save 10% for every 3 degrees F that you turn the
heat down. However, if you have any water pipes near exterior walls,
you generally don't want to turn the heat down much lower than 55F, as
the pipes near the exterior walls can freeze.

Oh, and it's a myth that re-heating the house/apartment will use more
energy than if you just left the heat turned up all the time. If you
are typically out of the apartment from say, 7:30 to 5:30, try this on
a set-back thermometer...

7:00AM 55F (start a half hour before you leave, to maximize savings)
5:30PM 71F (just as you get home, it will start warming up...)
8:00PM 68F (this is a perfect sleeping temperature for deep sleep)

For a weekend setting, just change 7:00 AM to 68F

If you go away for the night or weekend, use the "hold" feature to set
the temperature to 55F. Hold will over-ride programming and the temp.
will stay wherever you set it until you take it off hold. -Dave
From: Dave C. on 12 Dec 2009 02:01

> >
> Same advantage - you'll save on energy, but keep the temperature high
> enough to prevent pipes from freezing when the outside temperature is
> below freezing and keeping in mind it may take hours to build the
> temperature back to a comfortable setting, depending on the outside
> temperature, the volume of your apartment, how well it's insulated,
> etc..

Natural gas forced hot air will heat up a space quick, even if it's not
very well insulated. In a worst case scenario, if the temperature is
about 50F inside when he gets home (lower than that would risk pipes
freezing), he should be comfortable within 10 minutes of turning the
heat back up. Note that the temperature might not level out for 15 or
20 minutes. But within 10 minutes, it should come up 20F, roughly.
Unless the heating system is not properly sized for the space it is
heating. -Dave
From: Napoleon on 12 Dec 2009 16:07
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:32:33 -0500, sse11791(a)aim.com wrote:

>I have a 1200 sq foot apartment with forced hot air gas heat. I live
>in upstate New York.

I live in upstate NY too and find that the delivery costs of NG are
higher than my supply costs, so matter how much I save in supply, the
bill never really gets lower. If you have National Grid, check to see
how much your bill goes down by saving on supply. I bet not much
unfortunately.

Nevertheless, I keep the house at 58 from 7:30am to 5pm and 8:30pm to
6:20am M-F. It is only turned up to 64 from 6:20-7:30am and
5pm-8:30pm. On the weekends it's kept at 64 from 8:30am-5pm (I wish I
can keep it the same on weekends as on weekdays, but others complain
about the cold).

>What about if I am going away for the weekend? Is the set-back
>different?

I'd keep at 58 all the time if you're going away. I've probably saved
about 10 dollars a month in NG supply charges by keeping it at 58, yet
the delivery charges go up and up, which means I can lower the
temperature in the house as much as I want, and still not save on
utility charges.
From: Dave C. on 12 Dec 2009 06:19
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 16:07:23 -0500
Napoleon <anarch(a)666yes.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:32:33 -0500, sse11791(a)aim.com wrote:
>
> >I have a 1200 sq foot apartment with forced hot air gas heat. I live
> >in upstate New York.
>
> I live in upstate NY too and find that the delivery costs of NG are
> higher than my supply costs, so matter how much I save in supply, the
> bill never really gets lower. If you have National Grid, check to see
> how much your bill goes down by saving on supply. I bet not much
> unfortunately.
>
> Nevertheless, I keep the house at 58 from 7:30am to 5pm and 8:30pm to
> 6:20am M-F. It is only turned up to 64 from 6:20-7:30am and
> 5pm-8:30pm. On the weekends it's kept at 64 from 8:30am-5pm (I wish I
> can keep it the same on weekends as on weekdays, but others complain
> about the cold).

As they should. At that temp, you can die of hypothermia.



>
> >What about if I am going away for the weekend? Is the set-back
> >different?
>
> I'd keep at 58 all the time if you're going away. I've probably saved
> about 10 dollars a month in NG supply charges by keeping it at 58, yet
> the delivery charges go up and up, which means I can lower the
> temperature in the house as much as I want, and still not save on
> utility charges.

That's a good point. At best, you are only going to save about 20% on
the *supply* charges by using a set-back thermostat. Unless the
apartment is empty the whole month, set at 55 the whole time.

So you can (and probably should) use a set-back thermometer, but don't
expect your utility bill to drop more than about 10%. -Dave
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