From: Niel Humphreys on
"bigegg" <news(a)hardboiled.plus.com> wrote in message
news:4574a72c$0$8746$ed2619ec(a)ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> Peter Parry wrote:
>
>> That eliminates the contract to buy. The seller has to refund the
>> buyer all their money, the buyer has to restore the goods to the
>> seller. Not only does no contract now exist but according to the
>> DSR's it shall be as if no contract _ever_ existed. If no contract
>> ever existed then there cannot have been a non paying bidder.
>>
>
> In that case, there's no FVF to pay, so the seller needs to claim it
> back from ebay, using the only method available, which is via the "NPB"
> claim form.
>
> If the buyer receives a "strike", then this is between the buyer and
> ebay, and nothing to do with the seller, after all, "no contract _ever_
> existed" between the buyer and seller.


That's sort of what I was getting at, thanks for wording it better than I
did. :)
--

Niel H
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Snowdon-Computers
http://www.ebayfaq.co.uk/
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Powersellers/


From: bcc97 on

Alison Hopkins wrote:
> "Joe Lee" <invalid(a)noaddress> wrote in message
> news:4574dfac$0$18057$fa0fcedb(a)news.zen.co.uk...
>
> > He clicked to buy on a BIN item in which the seller had committed a
> > criminal offence in that the price stated was exclusive of VAT, contrary
> > to the Price Marking Order 2004.
> >
>
> Leaving aside the seller's action, it is not a criminal offence.
>
> Ali

Actually, it is a criminal offence, but you need to look beyond the
order to find it.

The Order was made under s.2(6) of the Prices Act 1974. Under para.
5(1) of the Schedule to the Act, it is a criminal offence to contravene
an order which was made under s.2 of the Act. The offence is triable
either way, with a penalty of an unlimited fine on conviction on
indictment, and a penalty of up to £5000 on summary conviction.

From: Alison Hopkins on

"bcc97" <bcc98(a)stork.plus.com> wrote in message
news:1165310465.582350.183940(a)j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Alison Hopkins wrote:
> "Joe Lee" <invalid(a)noaddress> wrote in message
> news:4574dfac$0$18057$fa0fcedb(a)news.zen.co.uk...
>
> > He clicked to buy on a BIN item in which the seller had committed a
> > criminal offence in that the price stated was exclusive of VAT, contrary
> > to the Price Marking Order 2004.
> >
>
> Leaving aside the seller's action, it is not a criminal offence.
>
> Ali

Actually, it is a criminal offence, but you need to look beyond the
order to find it.

The Order was made under s.2(6) of the Prices Act 1974. Under para.
5(1) of the Schedule to the Act, it is a criminal offence to contravene
an order which was made under s.2 of the Act. The offence is triable
either way, with a penalty of an unlimited fine on conviction on
indictment, and a penalty of up to �5000 on summary conviction.

======

Now, that does surprose me. (I'll add that I do a lot of work with Trading
Standards and other local government enforcement agencies.) The TS guys I
know who've prosecuted this have done it without PLod or CPS involvement,
and as civil matters.

Ali


From: bcc97 on

Alison Hopkins wrote:
> Now, that does surprose me. (I'll add that I do a lot of work with Trading
> Standards and other local government enforcement agencies.) The TS guys I
> know who've prosecuted this have done it without PLod or CPS involvement,
> and as civil matters.

Local government enforcement agencies can generally prosecute criminal
offences in their own right, without the involvement of police or CPS.
Other examples would include trade descriptions, or misleading prices.

It is possible, however, to enforce the Order as a civil matter under
the Enterprise Act 2002 -- i.e. to seek an injunction preventing
further breaches. This can be done as an alternative to criminal
prosecution, or in addition to it.

From: Peter Parry on
On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:54:34 +0000, bigegg <news(a)hardboiled.plus.com>
wrote:

>Peter Parry wrote:
>
>> That eliminates the contract to buy. The seller has to refund the
>> buyer all their money, the buyer has to restore the goods to the
>> seller. Not only does no contract now exist but according to the
>> DSR's it shall be as if no contract _ever_ existed. If no contract
>> ever existed then there cannot have been a non paying bidder.
>>
>
>In that case, there's no FVF to pay, so the seller needs to claim it
>back from ebay, using the only method available, which is via the "NPB"
>claim form.

If the seller claims the buyer is a NPB then they are making a false
claim. That eBays automatic system seems to offer no alternative is
completely irrelevant.

>If the buyer receives a "strike", then this is between the buyer and
>ebay, and nothing to do with the seller,

It is everything to do with the seller as the seller is the one who
has instigated it by making the false claim that the bidder was a
NPB. It is no different from completing a normal sale and then
trying to get your fees back by claiming the buyer was a NPB. If
you were the purchaser in such a situation and found yourself with a
NPB strike what would you do? Would you consider it was nothing to
do with the seller?

Moreover, how would you cater for the customer who completed the
transaction, cancelled 7 working days later and returned the goods 29
days later? You can't suddenly decide you had not been paid.

I'm not sure how eBay's systems could cope with this. They are not
entitled to their fee from the seller as the contract has been
rescinded but have already taken it. There doesn't appear to be a
simple (any?) mechanism for undoing that.

The issue is that eBay don't appear to have a mechanism for catering
for contracts cancelled under the DSR's (Or if they do, does someone
know what it is?).

If there is going to be a DSR cancellation it is very much in the
sellers interest to have the cancellation occur before they despatch
the goods - that way they don't have to refund the postage as well!

>after all, "no contract _ever_ existed" between the buyer and seller.

If no contract ever existed how can there be a NPB? There was never
any obligation to buy.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/