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From: Alison Hopkins on 5 Dec 2006 08:58
"bcc97" <bcc98(a)stork.plus.com> wrote in message
> Alison Hopkins wrote:
>> Maybe no legal duty, but I strongly believe he has a moral one far beyond
>> the one you are citing.
> Yes, on second thoughts, I'd agree. The buyer's moral duty also
> extends to notifying the seller of his decision to cancel as soon as
> he's made that decision and particularly if he'd already made payment,
> so as to save the seller any postage costs.
> But beyond this, nothing. The seller offers goods for sale and enters
> into a contract in full knowledge that it is cancellable (or if he
> doesn't have that knowledge, he needs to educate himself as
> appropriate). No cause for complaint, legally or morally, if the buyer
> exercises their legal rights. If the seller doesn't like it, perhaps
> they should set up a high street shop instead.
> I suppose you'll also be arguing that, if the goods were delivered
> faulty, the buyer would have a moral duty not to complain, because it
> would cost the seller to refund/replace/pay damages?
Don't be silly.
From: Alison Hopkins on 5 Dec 2006 09:00
"Need a little help please" <nospam(a)thisaddress.net> wrote in message
> Indeed, swearing in moderation for effect may pass as acceptable, however,
> I cannot remember the last time I met anyone who swears with your
> frequency, or indeed, another poster to this group who makes use of such
> language as habitually as you do.
You really don't get out much, do you.
From: Peter Parry on 5 Dec 2006 09:02
On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 11:04:15 GMT, "Sid" <nospam(a)nospam.co.nospam>
>surely the DSR relates only to the nulification of any legal contract
>between the buyer and the seller,
>and has nothing to do with how the ebay
>system/user agreement works except where the ebay system conflicts with the
>DSR. the buyer is protected from any legal action by the seller under the
>DSR - that's where the DSR stops isn't it?
No, it dissolves the agreement to buy and by doing so invalidates any
eBay (or other) unpaid item process which depends upon that
>the ebay user agreement states that a non-paying bidder (he bid and did not
>pay, therefore he is a non paying bidder) will get a strike against his
>account, the DSR doesn;t change that.
The eBay user agreement says nothing of the sort :-) If it did every
losing bidder could be treated as a NPB; they bid but did not buy!
Moreover the buyer probably has paid (if it is a BIN sale or if the
goods have been sent) so can't be classed as not having done so. What
they have subsequently done is exercised their legal right to cancel.
It is no different from the situation where you agree to buy a gas
cooker and a pink Tutu is delivered instead. You can cancel the
contract and require the seller to refund you and collect their
goods. Would you be happy to collect a NPB strike for rejecting
faulty or misdescribed goods?
As you probably know the eBay procedure is now more correctly called
the Unpaid Item Policy rather than NPB and eBay say "Unpaid Item
policy is necessary to enforce the contractual obligations entered
into between buyer and seller". Which is all well and good but if
the contract is cancelled under the DSR's (or under the SOGA) there
is no contractual obligation and no unpaid item to dispute.
What is really needed is a proper procedure to deal with DSR returns.
Be able to cope with no input/response from the buyer.
Be capable instigated by the seller.
Be able to be triggered up to 30 days from the end of the sale.
As I've said before I can't think of an easy way you could make this
totally impervious to seller misuse I suspect eBay will be far more
worried with losing a tiny bit of profit than they will be with
fairly recompensing sellers for complying correctly with the law.
From: Peter Parry on 5 Dec 2006 09:08
On 5 Dec 2006 05:34:16 -0800, "bcc97" <bcc98(a)stork.plus.com> wrote:
>It would be impossible to compel the buyer to participate in any such
>arrangement. However, if the buyer were given the option to register
>their cancellation via the eBay site, and if this then automatically
>prevented any feedback being given about the transaction, this would
>probably be attractive.
Indeed, good idea.
From: Sid on 5 Dec 2006 09:44
"Peter Parry" <peter(a)wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
> On 5 Dec 2006 05:34:16 -0800, "bcc97" <bcc98(a)stork.plus.com> wrote:
>>It would be impossible to compel the buyer to participate in any such
>>arrangement. However, if the buyer were given the option to register
>>their cancellation via the eBay site, and if this then automatically
>>prevented any feedback being given about the transaction, this would
>>probably be attractive.
> Indeed, good idea.
if it were possible to win an auction, not pay, register as cancelled,
receive no feedback, a seller could win all his competitors auctions to
knock out his competition without any consequences, and with very little