From: bcc97 on

Niel Humphreys wrote:
> What is the timeframe required by law for the seller to respond to a
> complaint then before it is classed as ignored?

In this case, I'd class the DSR cancellation as having been ignored (or
denied) as soon as the seller sent a further e-mail requesting payment.

If money had already changed hands, the seller would have 30 days to
make a refund.

From: Need a little help please on

"Niel Humphreys" <admin(a)sznzozwzdzoznzczozmzpzuztzezrzs.co.uk> wrote in
message news:JZWdnSt6iuE-tenYRVnyig(a)pipex.net...
> "Need a little help please" <nospam(a)thisaddress.net> wrote in message
> news:el16c1$rtg$1(a)news.freedom2surf.net...
>>
>> "Niel Humphreys" <admin(a)sznzozwzdzoznzczozmzpzuztzezrzs.co.uk> wrote in
>> message news:i--dnadchtv7h-nYRVnyhw(a)pipex.net...
>>> "Need a little help please" <nospam(a)thisaddress.net> wrote in message
>>> news:el130u$pre$1(a)news.freedom2surf.net...
>>>>
>>>> Regardless of the circumstances that led to this situation which are
>>>> fundamentally entirely irrelevant, as a consumer purchasing from a
>>>> business and wishing to cancel under the Distance Selling Regulations,
>>>> you have done all that is required of you within the context of UK Law
>>>> in that you have submitted to the seller your request for cancellation
>>>> within the specified timeframe under the Distance Selling Regulations.
>>>>
>>>> The business is required to accept your cancellation without question
>>>> or dispute, to do otherwise is unlawful,
>>>
>>> They haven't disputed it have they? As far as I understand the seller
>>> hasn't entered into any discussion or negotiation with the buyer,
>>> therefore no dispute.
>>
>> A dispute exists because according to the OP the request for cancellation
>> under the Distance Selling Regulations was ignored, the response from the
>> business being a request for payment and statement the sale will stand,
>> as stated in the OP's opening message of this thread.
>
>
> What is the timeframe required by law for the seller to respond to a
> complaint then before it is classed as ignored?
> --
>
> Niel H
> http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Snowdon-Computers
> http://www.ebayfaq.co.uk/
> http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Powersellers/
>


For a general enquiry or complaint, a response within 28 days is considered
'reasonable' within the context of UK law, however, deliberately delaying
for such a length of time where a response could have been provided earlier
would be frowned upon by any judge if the matter were escalated to such a
point, or indeed any other involved official party such as Trading Standards
for example, unless there were legitimate reasons such as the requirement
for investigation or advisement from officials or informed qualified expert
parties. Further, it is not generally considered good practice from any
aspect to introduce unnecessary delays in correspondence, or falling silent
due to delays where the other parties could be kept informed of the ongoing
situation on a regular basis, whilst awaiting further developments.

With regards to a request for cancellation under the Distance Selling
Regulations within the timeframe allowed, which is entirely different as
this is neither a general enquiry or complaint, but simply the exercising of
consumer law, a response that consists of anything other than
acknowledgement and acceptance of the cancellation without question or
dispute would be unlawful. There is no reason why such a response should not
be 'by return' as is expected by the law, where 'by return' is accepted as
meaning 'replied to upon receipt'. A telephone call with follow up letter or
email generally avoids a 'non receipt' debacle.


From: Niel Humphreys on
"bcc97" <bcc98(a)stork.plus.com> wrote in message
news:1165241207.692282.153290(a)73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
>
> Niel Humphreys wrote:
>> What is the timeframe required by law for the seller to respond to a
>> complaint then before it is classed as ignored?
>
> In this case, I'd class the DSR cancellation as having been ignored (or
> denied) as soon as the seller sent a further e-mail requesting payment.


...but they didn't send any email, they filed a Non Payment report which sent
the OP a system generated payment reminder. There is still nothing
conclusive to say that the seller has actually received any emails from the
'buyer', they (or their ISP) may be erroneously spam filtering emails for
some reason. Assuming the 'buyer' sent a message through the Ebay system
perhaps they don't check their Ebay messages online. Unlikely but possible.

If I had not heard anything either way by now I would have requested contact
details and spoken to the seller on the phone though I suspect this is
something the 'buyer' hasn't the balls to do. They would perfer to whinge
and whine in this newsgroup where they are surrounded by his syncopates who
are re-enforcing his delusions that he is not responsible for his actions
regardless of the legality of the VAT situation auction and whether or not
it was deliberate or an accidental ommission. Marcus decided the seller has
tried to scam him very early on in this affair and way before other evidence
came to light to suggest otherwise and having publicly stated his beliefs he
isn't backing down to save face.

--

Niel H
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Snowdon-Computers
http://www.ebayfaq.co.uk/
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Powersellers/


From: Peter Parry on
On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 12:53:56 -0000, "Niel Humphreys"
<admin(a)sznzozwzdzoznzczozmzpzuztzezrzs.co.uk> wrote:


>The business is also perfectly entitled to claim back the Ebay fees
>(commission) on the uncompleted transaction seeing as they have not received
>the payment EBay have charged them fees for although the seller will lose
>the fees he paid to list the auction in the first place.

If the goods are rejected under the DSR's the seller is specifically
prohibited from reclaiming any such fees from the buyer and must
refund the buyer in full.

("14. - (1) On the cancellation of a contract under regulation 10,
the supplier shall reimburse any sum paid by or on behalf of the
consumer under or in relation to the contract to the person by whom
it was made free of any charge...")

>The automatic knock
>on effect of course is that the buyer will be given a non-payment strike on
>their account by Ebay. (Assuming the seller doesn't select 'mutually agreed
>not to complete' which is correct as I am sure the seller is not agreeing
>not to go ahead with the sale, only one of the 2 parties is pulling out so
>there is no mutual agreement)

Any seller trying this might well find themselves doing some
explaining as it would be illegal. One thing which does get Trading
Standards stirred up is people who try to limit consumers use of the
law by underhand methods.

The DSR's give an unfettered right of cancellation and moreover
specifically over-ride contractual terms which would limit those
rights :-

"No contracting-out
25. - (1) A term contained in any contract to which these
Regulations apply is void if, and to the extent that, it is
inconsistent with a provision for the protection of the consumer
contained in these Regulations."

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/
From: Niel Humphreys on
"Peter Parry" <peter(a)wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
news:a4j8n2tas7u2q0ai44h92gonldb8cehadg(a)4ax.com...
> On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 12:53:56 -0000, "Niel Humphreys"
> <admin(a)sznzozwzdzoznzczozmzpzuztzezrzs.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>The business is also perfectly entitled to claim back the Ebay fees
>>(commission) on the uncompleted transaction seeing as they have not
>>received
>>the payment EBay have charged them fees for although the seller will lose
>>the fees he paid to list the auction in the first place.
>
> If the goods are rejected under the DSR's the seller is specifically
> prohibited from reclaiming any such fees from the buyer and must
> refund the buyer in full.
>
> ("14. - (1) On the cancellation of a contract under regulation 10,
> the supplier shall reimburse any sum paid by or on behalf of the
> consumer under or in relation to the contract to the person by whom
> it was made free of any charge...")

What's this got to do with the Ebay fees Ebay will charge the seller? The
buyer doesn't pay the seller Ebay fees, the seller pays EBay the fees by way
of commission on revenue raised. Deal cancelled = no revenue received so
there should be no commission payable to Ebay by the seller.

Are you saying that according to the DSR sellers should pay Ebay fees on
items where the buyer has returned them for a refund? Isn't that grossly
unfair to sellers?

--

Niel H
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Snowdon-Computers
http://www.ebayfaq.co.uk/
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Powersellers/