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From: Tim Watts on 15 May 2010 13:26 On 15/05/10 17:29, Lou wrote: > "Tim Watts"<tw(a)dionic.net> wrote in message > news:hsmgge$vn8$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> On 15/05/10 16:07, Bill wrote: >>> Transition from "American Dream" living to "3rd world country" living. >>> >>> Do dishes by hand. >> >> That often consumes more water with today's efficient dishwashers. > > That's true. According to the user manual for my dishwasher, the most > efficient cycle uses less than 6 gallons of water to do a full load. > > However, for the cost of the dishwasher, it's possible to buy enough water > to float a boat. In my municipality, the water department calculated that > filling my pool (approximately 20,000 gallons) cost about $20. So the price > of a lower end dishwasher costing around $300 would buy around 300,000 > gallons of water at that price, which is enough water to wash an awful lot > of dishes. I get an infinite amount of water (well, restricted by the 1/2" main pipe which limits to about 55 litres/min) for my money. Though others round here are on meters, I've so far escaped. > But then there's the cost of heating the additional water > washing by hand would use over what the dishwasher uses. Yeah - the heating costs are the significant part by far. And a dishwasher uses electric heating, whereas hot water may be heated by gas, solar, wood etc. > Still, it's no contest as far as I'm concerned - a dishwasher is far more > convenient than washing dishes by hand, and is a home appliance I wouldn't > want to be without. Me too. But if you tried washing by hand (I did when on holiday in Latvia - washed my clothes in the river!), you may find that the washing machine *is* the machine you cannot live without ;-> Last time I did a costs analysis in England, food was the biggest bill (family of 4), electric only heating in winter (rebuilding a house, so lack of insulation and no gas heating yet). But the 2nd biggest cost after food was actually Council Tax (pays for the police to harrass me, that sort of thing). And there's nothing I can do about that other than sell and buy a smaller house, or a house in a different area... -- Tim Watts Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.
From: krw on 15 May 2010 14:03 On Sat, 15 May 2010 18:26:42 +0100, Tim Watts <tw(a)dionic.net> wrote: >On 15/05/10 17:29, Lou wrote: >> "Tim Watts"<tw(a)dionic.net> wrote in message >> news:hsmgge$vn8$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>> On 15/05/10 16:07, Bill wrote: >>>> Transition from "American Dream" living to "3rd world country" living. >>>> >>>> Do dishes by hand. >>> >>> That often consumes more water with today's efficient dishwashers. >> >> That's true. According to the user manual for my dishwasher, the most >> efficient cycle uses less than 6 gallons of water to do a full load. >> >> However, for the cost of the dishwasher, it's possible to buy enough water >> to float a boat. In my municipality, the water department calculated that >> filling my pool (approximately 20,000 gallons) cost about $20. So the price >> of a lower end dishwasher costing around $300 would buy around 300,000 >> gallons of water at that price, which is enough water to wash an awful lot >> of dishes. > >I get an infinite amount of water (well, restricted by the 1/2" main >pipe which limits to about 55 litres/min) for my money. Though others >round here are on meters, I've so far escaped. Unmetered water is silly. Why don't you use it to generate electricity? Flush the "waste" down the street. >> But then there's the cost of heating the additional water >> washing by hand would use over what the dishwasher uses. > >Yeah - the heating costs are the significant part by far. And a >dishwasher uses electric heating, whereas hot water may be heated by >gas, solar, wood etc. Dish washers are plumbed to the hot water. They get their water from the same place your sink does, and less of it. Many dish washers do have heaters to boost the temperature further, something you can't do washing by hand. >> Still, it's no contest as far as I'm concerned - a dishwasher is far more >> convenient than washing dishes by hand, and is a home appliance I wouldn't >> want to be without. > >Me too. But if you tried washing by hand (I did when on holiday in >Latvia - washed my clothes in the river!), you may find that the washing >machine *is* the machine you cannot live without ;-> > >Last time I did a costs analysis in England, food was the biggest bill >(family of 4), electric only heating in winter (rebuilding a house, so >lack of insulation and no gas heating yet). But the 2nd biggest cost >after food was actually Council Tax (pays for the police to harrass me, >that sort of thing). And there's nothing I can do about that other than >sell and buy a smaller house, or a house in a different area... When I lived in Vermont (a *cold* place in hell), my property tax bill was larger than my heat bill, so I moved South. ;-) My tax bill is still larger than my heating bill, but both have dropped by 75%. ;-) AC in the summer makes up for a lot of the missing heat bill, though.
From: Bob Eager on 15 May 2010 14:10 On Sat, 15 May 2010 13:03:28 -0500, krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>Yeah - the heating costs are the significant part by far. And a >>dishwasher uses electric heating, whereas hot water may be heated by >>gas, solar, wood etc. > > Dish washers are plumbed to the hot water. They get their water from > the same place your sink does, and less of it. Many dish washers do > have heaters to boost the temperature further, something you can't do > washing by hand. Again, you're assuming the U.S. Over here, dishwashers are usually cold fill. They use very little water, so often they would fill mostly cold anyway, from water lying in the pipe. -- Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor
From: krw on 15 May 2010 14:34 On 15 May 2010 18:10:49 GMT, Bob Eager <rde42(a)spamcop.net> wrote: >On Sat, 15 May 2010 13:03:28 -0500, krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: > >>>Yeah - the heating costs are the significant part by far. And a >>>dishwasher uses electric heating, whereas hot water may be heated by >>>gas, solar, wood etc. >> >> Dish washers are plumbed to the hot water. They get their water from >> the same place your sink does, and less of it. Many dish washers do >> have heaters to boost the temperature further, something you can't do >> washing by hand. > >Again, you're assuming the U.S. > >Over here, dishwashers are usually cold fill. That's dumb. >They use very little water, >so often they would fill mostly cold anyway, from water lying in the pipe. So you waste the water in the pipes either way. If you're washing by hand (with hot water) you're wasting all the hot water needed to get the tap up to temperature, plus the water needed to do the dishes. Seems like an even stronger argument for a hot-water plumed dishwasher.
From: Tim Watts on 15 May 2010 14:38
On 15/05/10 19:03, krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: > Unmetered water is silly. Why don't you use it to generate electricity? Flush > the "waste" down the street. Not silly for me - especially when mixing lots of concrete and plaster and the resulting washing out :) > > Dish washers are plumbed to the hot water. They get their water from the same > place your sink does, and less of it. Many dish washers do have heaters to > boost the temperature further, something you can't do washing by hand. Your general statement has one bad assumption. USA ones may be - nearly all the new ones here in teh UK (including washing machines) are cold feed only. > > When I lived in Vermont (a *cold* place in hell), my property tax bill was > larger than my heat bill, so I moved South. ;-) My tax bill is still larger > than my heating bill, but both have dropped by 75%. ;-) AC in the summer > makes up for a lot of the missing heat bill, though. -- Tim Watts Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament. |