From: Salmon Egg on
On 3/21/07 11:15 AM, in article
0DeMh.16044$Jl.10498(a)newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Jeff"
<dont_bug_me(a)all.uk> wrote:

> <snip>
>>
>> As a lighting designer, I now treat fluorescent lamps as I treat
>> incandescent lamps. If the light is not needed, turn them off for both cost
>> and energy savings. A house which was built new four years ago and for
>> which I designed the lighting has 75 fluorescent lamps -- most are used for
>> indirect room lighting on gloomy days. But I put fluorescent lamps in the
>> bathrooms, closets and other areas where the lamps are turned off and on
>> numerous times each day. There have been no lamp failures of either the
>> linear or CFL types to date.
>
> Whats the current technology for linear flourescents? My Dad put in
> linear single tube fluorescents all the way around the living room in an
> alcove. These lamps have the twist in starters. The wiring has
> deteriorated (brittle) and I'd like to either rewire these or replace
> them if the technology has moved on. I suspect it was these old
> fluorescents that were known for the sizable turn on surge.
>
> Jeff
>>
>> TKM
>>
>>
>>
>>
I believe you to be mistaken. The ballast limits the current flow so that
even if there were a short between the ends of the tubes, there would be a
high current alright but not a stupendous one. I am not an expert on this,
but I would be surprise if such current would be mo9re than three times that
of operating current.

If there is anything that could be called a surge, It occurs when the
starter contacts open up. The interruption of current flowing in the ballast
produces a voltage spike that strikes the discharge through the tube.

Bill
-- Fermez le Bush--about two years to go.


From: phil-news-nospam on
In alt.engineering.electrical TKM <nomail(a)no.net> wrote:

| As a lighting designer, I now treat fluorescent lamps as I treat
| incandescent lamps. If the light is not needed, turn them off for both cost
| and energy savings. A house which was built new four years ago and for
| which I designed the lighting has 75 fluorescent lamps -- most are used for
| indirect room lighting on gloomy days. But I put fluorescent lamps in the
| bathrooms, closets and other areas where the lamps are turned off and on
| numerous times each day. There have been no lamp failures of either the
| linear or CFL types to date.

It's good that *FL lamps today have quick start and none are wasting power
or lifetime for frequent starts. Even I would use *FL in certain places
like bathrooms where it isn't a long duty task light. But where eye strain
can be an issue, like the shop or kitchen, I'll put in a token FL lamp for
area lighting, plus many low voltage halogen spot lights to give real light
to where I need to work.

--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / spamtrap-2007-03-21-1705(a)ipal.net |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
From: throwitout on
On Mar 21, 3:15 pm, Jeff <dont_bug...(a)all.uk> wrote:
> <snip>
>
>
>
> > As a lighting designer, I now treat fluorescent lamps as I treat
> > incandescent lamps. If the light is not needed, turn them off for both cost
> > and energy savings. A house which was built new four years ago and for
> > which I designed the lighting has 75 fluorescent lamps -- most are used for
> > indirect room lighting on gloomy days. But I put fluorescent lamps in the
> > bathrooms, closets and other areas where the lamps are turned off and on
> > numerous times each day. There have been no lamp failures of either the
> > linear or CFL types to date.
>
> Whats the current technology for linear flourescents? My Dad put in
> linear single tube fluorescents all the way around the living room in an
> alcove. These lamps have the twist in starters. The wiring has
> deteriorated (brittle) and I'd like to either rewire these or replace
> them if the technology has moved on. I suspect it was these old
> fluorescents that were known for the sizable turn on surge.

He probably has T12 magnetic ballest fixtures. The easiest replacement
is T8's. You can get replacement T8 electronic ballests that you wire
in the existing fixtures. The bulbs have a smaller diameter (8/8" vs
the T12's 12/8" diameter) they have the same length and same
connectors as T12's. If you are worried of the condition of your
existing fixtures, you can get new fixtures that will accommodate T8's
right out of the box. T8's with electronic ballests are more efficient
and put out better light than T12s, and I believe the bulbs also have
less mercury (better for the environment).

The absolute leading edge would be T5s, however there are other
concerns with them, you must replace the fixtures (different length
tubes) and the equipment isn't as run of the mill as T8's.

The turn on surge is negligible in any light. Turning them off for 5
seconds would save energy. However restarting a fluorescent light is
hard on the lamp's life.

From: JohnR66 on

"Salmon Egg" <salmonegg(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:C226F1FA.6A8A8%salmonegg(a)sbcglobal.net...
> On 3/21/07 11:15 AM, in article
> 0DeMh.16044$Jl.10498(a)newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Jeff"
> <dont_bug_me(a)all.uk> wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>>>
>>> As a lighting designer, I now treat fluorescent lamps as I treat
>>> incandescent lamps. If the light is not needed, turn them off for both
>>> cost
>>> and energy savings. A house which was built new four years ago and for
>>> which I designed the lighting has 75 fluorescent lamps -- most are used
>>> for
>>> indirect room lighting on gloomy days. But I put fluorescent lamps in
>>> the
>>> bathrooms, closets and other areas where the lamps are turned off and on
>>> numerous times each day. There have been no lamp failures of either the
>>> linear or CFL types to date.
>>
>> Whats the current technology for linear flourescents? My Dad put in
>> linear single tube fluorescents all the way around the living room in an
>> alcove. These lamps have the twist in starters. The wiring has
>> deteriorated (brittle) and I'd like to either rewire these or replace
>> them if the technology has moved on. I suspect it was these old
>> fluorescents that were known for the sizable turn on surge.
>>
>> Jeff
>>>
>>> TKM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> I believe you to be mistaken. The ballast limits the current flow so that
> even if there were a short between the ends of the tubes, there would be a
> high current alright but not a stupendous one. I am not an expert on this,
> but I would be surprise if such current would be mo9re than three times
> that
> of operating current.

Actually, with a plain reactor type ballast, current draw is barely more. At
least this is what I found testing a 5 - 9 watt CFL ballast shorted. The
problem is all the voltage drop is over the ballast and it heats up quick.
An electronic ballast may not take to shorting at all.

> If there is anything that could be called a surge, It occurs when the
> starter contacts open up. The interruption of current flowing in the
> ballast
> produces a voltage spike that strikes the discharge through the tube.
>
> Bill
> -- Fermez le Bush--about two years to go.
>
>


From: TKM on

"Jeff" <dont_bug_me(a)all.uk> wrote in message
news:0DeMh.16044$Jl.10498(a)newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> <snip>
>>
>> As a lighting designer, I now treat fluorescent lamps as I treat
>> incandescent lamps. If the light is not needed, turn them off for both
>> cost and energy savings. A house which was built new four years ago and
>> for which I designed the lighting has 75 fluorescent lamps -- most are
>> used for indirect room lighting on gloomy days. But I put fluorescent
>> lamps in the bathrooms, closets and other areas where the lamps are
>> turned off and on numerous times each day. There have been no lamp
>> failures of either the linear or CFL types to date.
>
> Whats the current technology for linear flourescents? My Dad put in
> linear single tube fluorescents all the way around the living room in an
> alcove. These lamps have the twist in starters. The wiring has
> deteriorated (brittle) and I'd like to either rewire these or replace them
> if the technology has moved on. I suspect it was these old fluorescents
> that were known for the sizable turn on surge.
>
> Jeff
>>
>> TKM

Wow. Time to upgrade that system. I can imagine how the lamps must blink,
flash and flicker at turn-on. But upgrading is relatively easy and a new
system will be 20-30 per cent more efficient. For the following, I assume
you now have 4-foot lamps and simple strip or channel fixtures. You can
choose to keep the existing strip fixtures; but I would recommend replacing
them so you have new lamp sockets too. A good replacement lamp is the 32
watt T8 which is also a 4-foot lamp. That lamp is easy to find, relatively
inexpensive, rated for 20,000 hours life and is available in a warm color
(3000K, CRI=80+ is best for home use in my view).

Power the lamp with an electronic instant-start ballast. You can use either
a single-lamp or a two-lamp ballast, but the wiring with the two-lamp
ballast is a little more complicated since there is a ballast just in ever
other strip fixture. However, that's the cheaper solution. I've used the
Universal electronic ballast B2321120 RH-A quite a bit. Google that catalog
number and you'll get the technical specifications, wiring diagram and some
sources of supply.

No, there was no turn-on power surge with your old system -- just a few
current pulses as the starters operated.

TKM