From: s on

> Water heater is typically hard wired - no plug. No plug means wire
> does not mechanically connect to meter. Therefore meter cannot
> measure that device.
Thanks for your reply.
Now, I am ensuring my water heater runs for only 10mins per day. But,
I am afraid if
I turn it on/off every day could it impact the main beaker switch or
the water heater itself
(as I presume it was not intended to be used like a bulb like I am
doing now daily to reduce bills).
In the event it breaks due to my usage like a bulb I don't want my
landlord to blame me for that.
Can anyone please advise? I understand someone posted here that he was
doing the
same and it reduced his bills but I would appreciate some more
feedback.

> If appliance can plug into meter, then connection is 100% safe. If
> appliance plug will not plug into meter, then appliance is unsafe for
> that meter. It's really that simple.
The first KillaWatt was having issues. I saw small sparks when I
plugged my refrigerator
into it. So, I did not know what could be wrong or is it a regular
phenomenon for a device like
refrigerator.

Thanks for your aid and time.

> On May 7, 10:36 am, s <s...(a)mailinator.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Well, I got a power measuring meter from my local hardware store.
> > Trouble is I did not know if there
> > could be any side effects. For instance, main consumption devices are
> > fridge and electric water heater. But, they are
> > connected directly to a socket(which hopefully has proper earthing
> > protection). I did not know if I plug
> > in the power measuring meter into socket and then connect the fridge
> > plug to the power measuring meter socket
> > if it would be safe or not. Same for water electric heater. These
> > devices consume lot of power
> > so I did not want to damage them or myself inadvertently. Can anybody
> > please advise how safe it
> > is to use them for such devices?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


From: s on

> > If ground wire is not connected, then either landlord must fix the
> > missing ground. Or landlord may decide an outlet should not have been
> > three prong and replace that three prong receptacle with a two prong.
>
> Or a GFCI outlet with the sticker "No equipment ground". Though that
> option is less than ideal for a number of reasons. Hopefully "s"'s
> electrical system is better than his friend's.
Thanks for your reply.
Not so. Mine is as bad as my friend's. I got a surge protector and
tester
and outlets in my unit don't have a ground wire protection. I believe
only
the refrigerator one does(and hope it stays that way till I leave the
apartment).


>
>
> > None of that will do much for appliance protection. Anything
> > adjacent to an appliance that was going to protect that appliance is
> > already inside that appliance. Your concern is only for a missing
> > safety ground wire - for human safety. Same 'locate defective ground'
> > test can be performed on all receptacles by three lights on a simple
> > $4 outlet tester. Tester is available at any hardware store.- Hide quoted text -
I thought a ground protection would provides more safety in a area
like mine(which is known for
heavy rains and storm).
Thanks for your help and time.
> - Show quoted text -


From: Lou on

"s" <s(a)mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:1178903636.497401.215200(a)e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> > news:1178550008.452398.31070(a)l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > Well, when I moved in I did not know how bad the equipment actually
> > > was.
> >
> > In the first place, we don't know if your equipment is really
substandard -
> > you haven't reported any actual measurements, and several replies here
have
> > indicated your usage doesn't seem abnormally high.
>
> Thanks for the reply.
> My equipment is indeed substandard. Fortunately, the energy audit
> people of my City who provide the utilities to whole city on my
> repeated complaints and calls of high energy usage came in before 8
> weeks.

OK, finally something other than unsubstantiated suspicion.

> They confirmed that my electrical
> and drainage equipment was the reason of my high usage. They had a
> Kill A Watt meter and buckets with measurements
> which confirmed my suspicions. They had visited a person's home like
> me who was living alone and hardly
> staying at home. They told me that person had a 90KWH electricty usage
> and 1200 gallons of water usage per month.
> When I told them the amount of time I spend at home they were
> surprised at my bills. They told me my bills is lot
> more due to shoddy equipment.
> They told me I could get a bill of 90KWH per month(as compared to mine
> of 297KWH) if I tweak things properly and
> assuming I convince my landlord to get me a refrigerator which uses
> 40-50KWH per month.

Here's the rub. You can buy a reasonably energy efficient refrigerator for
around $500 (not counting taxes). Spread that cost over a year's lease, and
it comes to about $42/month (plus interest, of course). But why would the
landlord care? You want him to spend $500 to save you money - he's likely
to be as eager to do that as you are to spend $20 - $30 a month on
electricity to save him money. He probably wouldn't object if you bought
your own refrigerator. You could take it with you when you move, and put
the old one back in the kitchen.

I don't know what you mean by "drainage equipment" - if you mean the shower
uses a lot of water, spending five of your own bucks and a few minutes of
your own time to get and install a low flow shower head seems worthwhile.
And again, when you move, you could put the old showerhead back and take the
low-flow one with you to your next place.

Servicing the water heater is something else. If it's in your apartment,
you could flush it yourself, or hire someone to come out and clean it. If
it's not, you'd probably have to get the landlord's OK if you can't convince
him to do it. If he won't do it and you don't want to lay out your own
money, the only thing I can suggest is that you take shorter showers.

> They told me my lighting and computer usage is using only 15KWH per
> month. The bulk was refrigerator and water
> heater. My water heater indicates 4.5KWH but might be using 7-8KWH if
> it has not been serviced,cleaned or
> maintained and I believe my landlord must not have done any.
> The audit people told me for someone with my usage here is how 90KWH
> per month could be possible.
> Use a 4.5KWH water heater for only 10mins per day(4.5*30/3 = approx
> 23KWH)
> Assume a energy star compliant refrigerator using 40-50KWH and
> lighting another 17KWH.
> He told me even a 6 year old(2001 model energy star compliant
> refrigerator) would use 40-50KWH but my model is
> FRT13CRH which he told is too old. The manufacturing company is
> Fridgaire(http://www.frigidaire.com/products/refrigerators.asp)
> I checked the manual at
ftp://ftp.electrolux-na.com/ProdInfo_PDF/Anderson/218972202en.pdf
> which though does not
> describe my model had some hints which I had already done(cleaning
> coils in back for proper operation of
> condenser).
>
>
>
>
> > > I signed a lease
> > > for 12 months so if I move out early I still have to pay the rent for
> > > remaining months. So, I cannot
> > > move out.
> >
> > Probably not, but what you can or cannot do depends on the laws in your
> > area, and the terms of your lease. For instance, perhaps you could
sublet
> > the place. Or if you move out and the landlord rents to someone else,
he
> > may not be able to collect from you and the new tenant (though if I was
the
> > landlord, I wouldn't be in any hurry to re-rent the place).
>
> Subletting was not allowed in my lease agreement. Well, my lease
> like(most leases) which was crafted by my landlord
> was to protect the landlord and impact the tenant as much as
> possible.

That's unduly cynical, in my estimation. Until you've owned property and
rented it out to strangers, you have no idea what pressures a landlord has
to deal with. It may be that your landlord is an evil man, but it's more
likely that he's trying to protect his investment and get a decent rate of
return.

> > > People I have talked to say there are some or other problems
> > > in their
> > > apartments also. Their apartment equipment might not be as bad as mine
> > > but if the neighbours
> > > are too noisy their landlord does not care(and thankfully I don't face
> > > noisy neighbours).
> >
> > Nothing's perfect.
>
> Maybe not but the energy audit people told me mine is one of the worst
> houses in the city in their 30 years
> of audits according to equipment issues.
>
> > > Some
> > > do have equipment like mine but they generally have 4 or more incomes
> > > in their household so
> > > an extra 60-70$ per month due to old equipment does not matter that
> > > much to them like me. When I told
> > > my landlord that I am losing 60-70$ per month due to his old equipment
> > > he retorted that it
> > > is shameful and lazy on my part to be on single income in today's age
> > > where most people have one full time and two or more part time jobs.
> >
> > So at the outside, you're looking at $840/year, or about $2.30/day. And
> > that's IF the equipment's at fault instead of your own habits. Not an
> > astronomical amount of money, but not a few pennies either.
>
>
> Not quite. 60-70 per month now. Assume if my equipment degrades more
> it could be 90-100 per month.
> When I will need the room heater in winter or A.C./fan in summer when
> it is too hot it could be lot
> more. Perhaps, about 1500 or more per year due to bad equipment.
> Our city charges about 15c/KWH which is high as compared to U.S.
> average of 10c citing
> they use natural gas to reduce pollution and so it is costly. The
> other reason they told me
> was my commmunity is fairly affluent as compared to other places(the
> average salary in my area
> Tallahassee,FL according to Money magazine is 57K for a single
> person). 50% of the population
> have a Bachelor's degree or more and I have heard people having
> household incomes of 250K is common
> (considering their real estate,overtime incomes,income from the other
> earner in house,part time jobs
> and so on). So most people in City are not impacted as much as me. My
> income is far below the average
> of 57K of this area.

It sounds like you moved into an area that's beyond your means, and not
surprisingly are having a thin time of it.

> >I don't know if
> > that bit about multiple jobs is accurate or not. I've never had more
than
> > one job at a time (well, I did teach nights for a few years, but it
wasn't
> > for the money - it didn't pay enough to make it worthwhile for the
money.
> > It was more like a hobby.).
>
> Well, most people have more than one job(1 full time job and overtime
> at the same place or 1
> full time,1 part time). If we consider a household or two earners it
> is two full time and two
> part time making it close to 4 incomes in my area. My landlord has a
> A.C. business(40hrs/week),part time
> real estate(5hrs/week),drives cab on Fri/Sar for extra income(20hrs/
> week). His spouse
> works for a state agency(getting health insurance for both) full time
> and at a part time
> restaurant(20hrs/week). So, his household has about 2 full time and
> three part time income
> and he told me most people are like that in all areas.

Not in my area, but I'm a long way away from Florida.

> I understand most people do that in nearly all places and it is bad on
> my part to not
> have one and so I am looking for one more aggressively now.

I wouldn't call it bad per se, but if that's what you need to do to meet the
obligations you've taken on, that's what you need to do.

> >In any case, it's not really the landlord's
> > business how you earn the money to pay the bills (including the rent),
as
> > long as it's legal. Maybe your problem isn't so much the price of
utilities
> > as it is the size of your income. Perhaps you should be looking for a
> > better paying job. One that paid an additional fortytwo cents an hour
would
> > cover it (well, if it weren't for taxes).
>
> Agreed, but I believe it is his job to give me reasonably proper
> equipment.
> Mine according to the energy audit people is about 15-20 years old.

My water heater is 18 years old, and it seems to do OK. The fridge is a
couple of years old, but no one bought it for me - I had to buy it myself.
I put in low-flow showerheads.

> > > People advise me to pressurize my landlord for upgrading the
> > > equipment
> > > and hope he does something though it is a faint hope.
> >
> > You've asked and he said no. I doubt he's obligated to furnish the
place
> > with up to the minute appliances.
>
> Not up to the minute but a six year old refrigerator model(2001) could
> reduce
> my bills if it is energy compliant.

And what's in it for him? More expense on his side, all the benefit on
yours.

> >And you did sign a lease, presumably
> > voluntarily - likely after you had a chance to look the place over.
>
> When I arrived I needed a place fast(which he took advantage of)

He took advantage of? You needed a place to live, and here was this person
who offered to rent one to you. You accepted. If this is really the worst
place the energy audit folks had ever seen, it sounds like if you had looked
at even one other place you would have done better.

> and
> there
> was no electricity or water. In this area when a tenant moves in City
> needs to be
> called to get the electricity or water. There was no way I could know
> how bad the electrical
> equipment was or the water leaks. After my first bill, all the kind
> people in this group who
> did aid me(and are still helping me) in getting things plugged and
> the energy audit people I realised
> what condition my equipment actually was.
>
>
> > If he's
> > meeting the terms of the lease and complying with applicable law, I'd
guess
> > that ends the discussion. I'd advise against nagging him - suppose
there's
> > a plumbing break in the middle fo the night and you need him to get it
fixed
> > as soon as possible?
>
> Granted, but the energy audit people came before 8 weeks period
> as I complained a lot. They told me if you
> do the same few things may change and since your landlord needs your
> rent he will do something.
>
> > Sometimes landlords are willing to strike a deal - how would you feel
about
> > increasing the rent by $35/month in exhange for a new refrigerator and
water
> > heater? You'd both come out ahead - your total expenditures would drop,
and
> > the place would have new appliances that could increase his rental
income
> > after you moved out at the end of your lease.
>
> I tried but he told he plans to increase the rent by 70$ next year at
> the
> same bad equipment. The issue is my area has three campuses(about 60K
> students)
> So, there are people who will need a place every year. So it is like a
> landlord town
> who can do whatever they want regardless of the condition of
> apartment.

Then it sounds like the smart thing for you to do would be to buy a place of
your own and rent it out to students.



From: s on
>
>
>
>
>
> > >news:1178550008.452398.31070(a)l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > Well, when I moved in I did not know how bad the equipment actually
> > > > was.
>
> > > In the first place, we don't know if your equipment is really
> substandard -
> > > you haven't reported any actual measurements, and several replies here
> have
> > > indicated your usage doesn't seem abnormally high.
>
> > Thanks for the reply.
> > My equipment is indeed substandard. Fortunately, the energy audit
> > people of my City who provide the utilities to whole city on my
> > repeated complaints and calls of high energy usage came in before 8
> > weeks.
>
> OK, finally something other than unsubstantiated suspicion.
Thanks for your reply.
Well, I agree what I initially thought was unsubstantiated suspicion
but in most cases you have a rough idea of bills(from your
usage,consulting others who use the same service). I knew what my
usage was(lights and computer) which I calculated initially. The
refrigerator and water heater were two things I did not know about
regarding power consumption. But, from the aid of kind people in this
group, searching on Web as well as talking to people who live in same
area(who are charged the same rate as me for water, electricity) and
observing the bills of people who lived before me(who used lot more
than me according to my present neighbours) and had very less bills
comparatively I was nearly certain either equipment was shoddy or
someone else was tampering with my usage.

> > They confirmed that my electrical
> > and drainage equipment was the reason of my high usage. They had a
> > Kill A Watt meter and buckets with measurements
> > which confirmed my suspicions. They had visited a person's home like
> > me who was living alone and hardly
> > staying at home. They told me that person had a 90KWH electricty usage
> > and 1200 gallons of water usage per month.
> > When I told them the amount of time I spend at home they were
> > surprised at my bills. They told me my bills is lot
> > more due to shoddy equipment.
> > They told me I could get a bill of 90KWH per month(as compared to mine
> > of 297KWH) if I tweak things properly and
> > assuming I convince my landlord to get me a refrigerator which uses
> > 40-50KWH per month.
>
> Here's the rub. You can buy a reasonably energy efficient refrigerator for
> around $500 (not counting taxes). Spread that cost over a year's lease, and
> it comes to about $42/month (plus interest, of course). But why would the
> landlord care? You want him to spend $500 to save you money - he's likely
> to be as eager to do that as you are to spend $20 - $30 a month on
> electricity to save him money. He probably wouldn't object if you bought
> your own refrigerator. You could take it with you when you move, and put
> the old one back in the kitchen.

Moving even small items is expensive and difficult in my opinion. I
had to get my 5 bags and 2 small suitcases shipped from my previous
residence NY and that costed me about 150$. Moving a item like
refrigerator(assuming it does not get damaged in shipping even if you
unwind its components) could be more. Again, I have not done that so
don't know but from my experience of bags it looks more expensive,
difficult and risky. The other problem is I will be here only till the
end of my lease viewing the current condition of apartment. The energy
people also told me that its insulation is quite bad and I could face
lot of issues during heating in winter as cold may slip in and heated
air slip out through the cracks and likewise issues in hot summer.


> I don't know what you mean by "drainage equipment"

They told me it was the flush which was using four times of a normal
flush as it is as ancient as my refrigerator which was the reason for
my usage of 87 gallons per day.

>- if you mean the shower
> uses a lot of water, spending five of your own bucks and a few minutes of
> your own time to get and install a low flow shower head seems worthwhile.
> And again, when you move, you could put the old showerhead back and take the
> low-flow one with you to your next place.

I did that and have reduced the time my shower is on to only 5 mins/
day to reduce water usage.

> Servicing the water heater is something else. If it's in your apartment,
> you could flush it yourself, or hire someone to come out and clean it. If
> it's not, you'd probably have to get the landlord's OK if you can't convince
> him to do it. If he won't do it and you don't want to lay out your own
> money, the only thing I can suggest is that you take shorter showers.

It is placed below my apartment. Landlord does not know how to do
maintenance. He has a part time help for that purpose. I don't know
how to open, clean, tweak and service it so that it uses proper amount
of electricity rather than twice or thrice what it claims to use. I
have already reduced running it to only 10mins/day but hope it does
not use 10KWH/hr instead of its rated 4.5KWH/hr.

>
>
>
>
> > They told me my lighting and computer usage is using only 15KWH per
> > month. The bulk was refrigerator and water
> > heater. My water heater indicates 4.5KWH but might be using 7-8KWH if
> > it has not been serviced,cleaned or
> > maintained and I believe my landlord must not have done any.
> > The audit people told me for someone with my usage here is how 90KWH
> > per month could be possible.
> > Use a 4.5KWH water heater for only 10mins per day(4.5*30/3 = approx
> > 23KWH)
> > Assume a energy star compliant refrigerator using 40-50KWH and
> > lighting another 17KWH.
> > He told me even a 6 year old(2001 model energy star compliant
> > refrigerator) would use 40-50KWH but my model is
> > FRT13CRH which he told is too old. The manufacturing company is
> > Fridgaire(http://www.frigidaire.com/products/refrigerators.asp)
> > I checked the manual at
>
> ftp://ftp.electrolux-na.com/ProdInfo_PDF/Anderson/218972202en.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
> > which though does not
> > describe my model had some hints which I had already done(cleaning
> > coils in back for proper operation of
> > condenser).
>
> > > > I signed a lease
> > > > for 12 months so if I move out early I still have to pay the rent for
> > > > remaining months. So, I cannot
> > > > move out.
>
> > > Probably not, but what you can or cannot do depends on the laws in your
> > > area, and the terms of your lease. For instance, perhaps you could
> sublet
> > > the place. Or if you move out and the landlord rents to someone else,
> he
> > > may not be able to collect from you and the new tenant (though if I was
> the
> > > landlord, I wouldn't be in any hurry to re-rent the place).
>
> > Subletting was not allowed in my lease agreement. Well, my lease
> > like(most leases) which was crafted by my landlord
> > was to protect the landlord and impact the tenant as much as
> > possible.
>
> That's unduly cynical, in my estimation. Until you've owned property and
> rented it out to strangers, you have no idea what pressures a landlord has
> to deal with. It may be that your landlord is an evil man, but it's more
> likely that he's trying to protect his investment and get a decent rate of
> return.

Agreed, but when I found at my workplace that other landlords are
giving proper equipment and insulation to their tenants and mine is
not it makes me think why is my landlord not providing me those
things. Some may have problems of noisy neighbours but there are many
who don't have noisy neighbours. Also, it is just my luck that my
neighbours are not too noisy at present but it could change in future.

>
>
>
>
> > > > People I have talked to say there are some or other problems
> > > > in their
> > > > apartments also. Their apartment equipment might not be as bad as mine
> > > > but if the neighbours
> > > > are too noisy their landlord does not care(and thankfully I don't face
> > > > noisy neighbours).
>
> > > Nothing's perfect.
>
> > Maybe not but the energy audit people told me mine is one of the worst
> > houses in the city in their 30 years
> > of audits according to equipment issues.
>
> > > > Some
> > > > do have equipment like mine but they generally have 4 or more incomes
> > > > in their household so
> > > > an extra 60-70$ per month due to old equipment does not matter that
> > > > much to them like me. When I told
> > > > my landlord that I am losing 60-70$ per month due to his old equipment
> > > > he retorted that it
> > > > is shameful and lazy on my part to be on single income in today's age
> > > > where most people have one full time and two or more part time jobs.
>
> > > So at the outside, you're looking at $840/year, or about $2.30/day. And
> > > that's IF the equipment's at fault instead of your own habits. Not an
> > > astronomical amount of money, but not a few pennies either.
>
> > Not quite. 60-70 per month now. Assume if my equipment degrades more
> > it could be 90-100 per month.
> > When I will need the room heater in winter or A.C./fan in summer when
> > it is too hot it could be lot
> > more. Perhaps, about 1500 or more per year due to bad equipment.
> > Our city charges about 15c/KWH which is high as compared to U.S.
> > average of 10c citing
> > they use natural gas to reduce pollution and so it is costly. The
> > other reason they told me
> > was my commmunity is fairly affluent as compared to other places(the
> > average salary in my area
> > Tallahassee,FL according to Money magazine is 57K for a single
> > person). 50% of the population
> > have a Bachelor's degree or more and I have heard people having
> > household incomes of 250K is common
> > (considering their real estate,overtime incomes,income from the other
> > earner in house,part time jobs
> > and so on). So most people in City are not impacted as much as me. My
> > income is far below the average
> > of 57K of this area.
>
> It sounds like you moved into an area that's beyond your means, and not
> surprisingly are having a thin time of it.

Well, I did not have a choice. I had to go where I got a position. As
for the incomes on the average in U.S. I have seen it is in that range
for most cities(lot more in places like New York City, Washington
D.C.) but my experience shows most households have atleast 3 or more
incomes in U.S. 250K might be little high for some areas but most
places people manage to earn that much(assuming there are two earners,
they have invested in real estate or did likewise things).

> > >I don't know if
>
>
>
>
>
> > > that bit about multiple jobs is accurate or not. I've never had more
> than
> > > one job at a time (well, I did teach nights for a few years, but it
> wasn't
> > > for the money - it didn't pay enough to make it worthwhile for the
> money.
> > > It was more like a hobby.).
>
> > Well, most people have more than one job(1 full time job and overtime
> > at the same place or 1
> > full time,1 part time). If we consider a household or two earners it
> > is two full time and two
> > part time making it close to 4 incomes in my area. My landlord has a
> > A.C. business(40hrs/week),part time
> > real estate(5hrs/week),drives cab on Fri/Sar for extra income(20hrs/
> > week). His spouse
> > works for a state agency(getting health insurance for both) full time
> > and at a part time
> > restaurant(20hrs/week). So, his household has about 2 full time and
> > three part time income
> > and he told me most people are like that in all areas.
>
> Not in my area, but I'm a long way away from Florida.

Yes, but even while I was in NY I have noticed most people work two
full time jobs and their spouse working one full time and one part
time and then having some sort of high return investment(real estate).

> > I understand most people do that in nearly all places and it is bad on
> > my part to not
> > have one and so I am looking for one more aggressively now.
>
> I wouldn't call it bad per se, but if that's what you need to do to meet the
> obligations you've taken on, that's what you need to do.

Well, it is not bad per se. A household(or if a person is alone) has
to have a income high enough to conside high cost of living, health
insurance and funds for their(or person's) retirement, family(parents
or children) support, education(person's or children's) costs and
other contingencies. If a household(person) doing just one job(working
as a contractor, has his own business or some other high income
position) can manage that income that is fine. But, if he cannot he(or
others in his family) have to do more jobs to reach that level of
income.
I am searching for one. But, it is a little difficult but hope with
time I may get one.
>
>
> > >In any case, it's not really the landlord's
> > > business how you earn the money to pay the bills (including the rent),
> as
> > > long as it's legal. Maybe your problem isn't so much the price of
> utilities
> > > as it is the size of your income. Perhaps you should be looking for a
> > > better paying job. One that paid an additional fortytwo cents an hour
> would
> > > cover it (well, if it weren't for taxes).
>
> > Agreed, but I believe it is his job to give me reasonably proper
> > equipment.
> > Mine according to the energy audit people is about 15-20 years old.
>
> My water heater is 18 years old, and it seems to do OK. The fridge is a
> couple of years old, but no one bought it for me - I had to buy it myself.
> I put in low-flow showerheads.

But, you might be owning your house. And your water heater seems to be
cleaned,serviced properly by you(or if you rent one by your apartment
owner) if it is
working properly though it is 18 years old. If I owned the house or
planned to stay in it for 4-5 years I would consider getting a
refrigerator but as I plan to move out it does not seem to be a viable
option.


>
>
> > > > People advise me to pressurize my landlord for upgrading the
> > > > equipment
> > > > and hope he does something though it is a faint hope.
>
> > > You've asked and he said no. I doubt he's obligated to furnish the
> place
> > > with up to the minute appliances.
>
> > Not up to the minute but a six year old refrigerator model(2001) could
> > reduce
> > my bills if it is energy compliant.
>
> And what's in it for him? >More expense on his side, all the benefit on
> yours.

Agreed, but as I mentioned before when I found at my workplace that
other landlords are giving proper equipment and insulation to their
tenants and mine is not it makes me think why is my landlord not
providing me those things. A landlord charges rent and it is his duty
to ensure his tenants are reasonably comfortable in my opinion. It is
the landlord's duty to provide servicing of equipment, insulation
issues and other things in my perspective.


> > >And you did sign a lease, presumably
> > > voluntarily - likely after you had a chance to look the place over.
>
> > When I arrived I needed a place fast(which he took advantage of)
>
> He took advantage of?
Well, when you go to look at a place you notice some flaws and so did
I but they were minor like broken door latch for a closet. He assured
my it would be fixed alongwith other any other issues I may have
promptly before I move in. He never fixed it since I moved in. He took
advantage of the fact that as I needed a place fast I signed the lease
and moved in before I could ask him to fix it.

>You needed a place to live, and here was this person
> who offered to rent one to you.

Like any other commodity(which can be pruchased there are many
sellers) lots of places were ready to rent to me. But, I chose this as
it was close to my place of work.


>You accepted. If this is really the worst
> place the energy audit folks had ever seen, it sounds like if you had looked
>at even one other place you would have done better.

I did not know how the apartment was when I looked at it in terms of
energy consumption. I believe it is hard to tell by a casual look what
are the potential traps of any apartment. Now when I am getting my
utility bills, comparing with others, usage of people similar to me,
energy audit folks opinion and assistance of all the people who
helped(and are helping me) I know what should be my bill(about 90KWH)
for my usage and what actually it is(297KWH).

>Then it sounds like the smart thing for you to do would be to buy a place of
>your own and rent it out to students.

Correct. Many people in this area became multi-millionaires in this
area in real estate.
I wish I had the funds to buy a place for myself. It will take me some
time to pay back my loans, establish sufficient income to get loans to
buy a place.

Thanks for your reply and time.

From: Don Klipstein on
In article <1178903636.497401.215200(a)e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, s wrote:
>> news:1178550008.452398.31070(a)l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > Well, when I moved in I did not know how bad the equipment actually
>> > was.
>>
>> In the first place, we don't know if your equipment is really substandard -
>> you haven't reported any actual measurements, and several replies here have
>> indicated your usage doesn't seem abnormally high.
>
>Thanks for the reply.
>My equipment is indeed substandard. Fortunately, the energy audit
>people of my City who provide the utilities to whole city on my
>repeated complaints and calls of high energy usage came in before 8
>weeks. They confirmed that my electrical
>and drainage equipment was the reason of my high usage. They had a
>Kill A Watt meter and buckets with measurements
>which confirmed my suspicions. They had visited a person's home like
>me who was living alone and hardly
>staying at home. They told me that person had a 90KWH electricty usage
>and 1200 gallons of water usage per month.
>When I told them the amount of time I spend at home they were
>surprised at my bills. They told me my bills is lot
>more due to shoddy equipment.
>They told me I could get a bill of 90KWH per month(as compared to mine
>of 297KWH) if I tweak things properly and
>assuming I convince my landlord to get me a refrigerator which uses
>40-50KWH per month.

If you have a low-energy-efficiency fridge and live where electricity
cost is near or above national USA average, you can probably do well to
buy your own replacement if you expect to use it for a few years.
Otherwise I advise shopping for other landlords if that has reasonable
expectation of reducing your monthly expense (which I consider more a
matter of question).

>They told me my lighting and computer usage is using only 15KWH per
>month. The bulk was refrigerator and water
>heater. My water heater indicates 4.5KWH but might be using 7-8KWH if
>it has not been serviced,cleaned or
>maintained and I believe my landlord must not have done any.

If there is cleaning you can and are allowed to do or which you can do
well and get away with, it is in your interest to do so should you have a
lazy landlord. Maybe move to a different landlord or to homeownership,
but don't pay more to not let something needing to get done which you can
do until it's done by the landlord just because the landlord is supposed
to be responsible to do it.
Heck, sometimes in some cases you can even get documentable necessary
work costs that the landlord needs to do but does not do deducted from
rent!

>The audit people told me for someone with my usage here is how 90KWH
>per month could be possible.
>Use a 4.5KWH water heater for only 10mins per day(4.5*30/3 = approx
>23KWH)
>Assume a energy star compliant refrigerator using 40-50KWH and
>lighting another 17KWH.
>He told me even a 6 year old(2001 model energy star compliant
>refrigerator) would use 40-50KWH but my model is
>FRT13CRH which he told is too old. The manufacturing company is
>Fridgaire(http://www.frigidaire.com/products/refrigerators.asp)
>I checked the manual at ftp://ftp.electrolux-na.com/ProdInfo_PDF/Anderson/218972202en.pdf
>which though does not
>describe my model had some hints which I had already done(cleaning
>coils in back for proper operation of
>condenser).

I suspect that a new fridge will pay you back better than most mutual
funds if you are going to live with the fridge for at least a few years
and if your electricity cost is near or above USA national average.

>> > I signed a lease
>> > for 12 months so if I move out early I still have to pay the rent for
>> > remaining months. So, I cannot move out.
>>
>> Probably not, but what you can or cannot do depends on the laws in your
>> area, and the terms of your lease. For instance, perhaps you could sublet
>> the place. Or if you move out and the landlord rents to someone else, he
>> may not be able to collect from you and the new tenant (though if I was the
>> landlord, I wouldn't be in any hurry to re-rent the place).

<SNIP stuff more drifting to landlord-tenant issues>

>Maybe not but the energy audit people told me mine is one of the worst
>houses in the city in their 30 years of audits according to equipment
>issues.

Makes me think that if you need to live in the same apartment for at
least 3 years, you have a good chance of positive impact to your bottom
line by buying your own equipment. If you do so, you get to take it with
you when you move!

>> > Some
>> > do have equipment like mine but they generally have 4 or more incomes
>> > in their household so
>> > an extra 60-70$ per month due to old equipment does not matter that
>> > much to them like me. When I told
>> > my landlord that I am losing 60-70$ per month due to his old equipment
>> > he retorted that it
>> > is shameful and lazy on my part to be on single income in today's age
>> > where most people have one full time and two or more part time jobs.

I think that income has low relevance to ability to reduce outgo!
I say consider means to reduce outgo!

>> So at the outside, you're looking at $840/year, or about $2.30/day. And
>> that's IF the equipment's at fault instead of your own habits. Not an
>> astronomical amount of money, but not a few pennies either.

>Not quite. 60-70 per month now. Assume if my equipment degrades more
>it could be 90-100 per month.

How much do you need to spend to cut this by 30%? How much do you need
to spend to cut this by 50%? What would be the annual rate of return?
I suspect BIGTIME!

>When I will need the room heater in winter or A.C./fan in summer when
>it is too hot it could be lot more. Perhaps, about 1500 or more per year
>due to bad equipment.

Room heater? I suspect that this is on your own, and those tend to be
already at close to maximum possible efficiency. I think a blanket or
two, a quilt or two or a comforter or a duvet and a few sweaters and
warmer pajamas (or sweatpants over pajama pants or maybe an electric
blanket) would be a good investment.

A/C is an area where if the landlord has bad old tech or equipment
more than halfway aged to its grave then you may do well by taking
ownership of such and buying the replacement if you expect to live there
at least a few more years.

>Our city charges about 15c/KWH (SNIP reasons)

Above USA national average - conservation pays even more! If you can
benefit from conservation moves even if you pay for them despite landlord
owning the equipment that can be improved, guess who is the one to have
the bottom line improved by forking over the money to buy better
equipment?
Don't like that - shop for landlords that give their tenants lower
tenant-responsible energy bills, or move to homeownership!

<SNIP more stuff mainly to income production>

>Agreed, but I believe it is his job to give me reasonably proper
>equipment.
>Mine according to the energy audit people is about 15-20 years old.

If you can improve your bottom line and you landlord cannot do so by
replacing any particular equipment item, chances are that it's up to you
to take ownership of such equipment items!
I suggest where possible replace without disposing of the landlord's
junk, and take your better equipment with you when you move, and leave
your rented bleeper with the costly junk that the landlord provided.

As for new tenants: I do advise considering monthly energy expenses by
landlord-provided necessary equipment when shopping for rented homes!

>> > People advise me to pressurize my landlord for upgrading the
>> > equipment
>> > and hope he does something though it is a faint hope.
>>
>> You've asked and he said no. I doubt he's obligated to furnish the place
>> with up to the minute appliances.
>
>Not up to the minute but a six year old refrigerator model(2001) could
>reduce my bills if it is energy compliant.

Whose bills get reduced? If not the landlord's bills, then you have to
replace the equipment on your own (without disposing of the landlord's
equipment) or else wait for the landlord's equipment to die a natural
death through no fault or irresponsibility of your own and hope the
landlord actually replaces the junk with good new equipment as opposed
to replacement junk that works well enough to keep the landlord in
compliance with your lease.

<SNIP more landlord-tenant issues>

>> If he's
>> meeting the terms of the lease and complying with applicable law, I'd guess
>> that ends the discussion. I'd advise against nagging him - suppose there's
>> a plumbing break in the middle fo the night and you need him to get it fixed
>> as soon as possible?
>
>Granted, but the energy audit people came before 8 weeks period
>as I complained a lot. They told me if you
>do the same few things may change and since your landlord needs your
>rent he will do something.

How do you have power to make the landlord reduce your monthly home
cost bottom line and not his? Any recommendations from the energy audit
that would benefit you and not benefit the landlord are probably up to
you to do and only where permitted by your lease.
It appears to me that replacing incandescent lightbulbs with CFLs (by
you) is normally allowable. It appears to me that buying a
more-energy-efficient fridge and storing the landlord's lousy fridge is
usually allowable. You get to take your fridge with you when you move
(when feasible) and you have the responsibility to not in any way deprive
the landlord of his junky fridge.

>> Sometimes landlords are willing to strike a deal - how would you feel about
>> increasing the rent by $35/month in exhange for a new refrigerator and water
>> heater? You'd both come out ahead - your total expenditures would drop, and
>> the place would have new appliances that could increase his rental income
>> after you moved out at the end of your lease.
>
>I tried but he told he plans to increase the rent by 70$ next year at
>the same bad equipment. The issue is my area has three campuses(about 60K
>students) So, there are people who will need a place every year. So it is
>like a landlord town who can do whatever they want regardless of the
>condition of apartment.

Sadly, I would say that alternatives are moving to a different
neighborhood, getting into homeownership, or getting rich by buying rental
property in your neighborhood.
And I am a tenant who just got into a lease that I likely have to pay
rent on for the next 11 months! I just hope the fridge here is not so old
and lousy that I would do better by storing it in my home while buying,
owning and operating a fridge of my own in an apartment where space to
some extent disfavors having two fridges with one doing nothing but taking
up space! (as opposed to doing no major equipment purchase, otherwise see
if I will be better off a few years from now by moving to homeownership or
investing in rental property or staying where I am and investing in a
broad market stock index mutual fund!)

- Don Klipstein (don(a)misty.com)
First  |  Prev  |  Next  |  Last
Pages: 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Prev: Cutivate Eczema Lotion
Next: www.chinacity2008.com